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Labour at it again... anti-Semitism... #II

Discussion in 'off topic' started by Stunsworth, Jul 7, 2019.

  1. Woodface

    Woodface pfm Member

    Press is far less important than it was even 10 years ago; I don't think is as decisive as it once was nor will it ever be. Falling readership, massive growth of online media. MSM is actually Google & Facebook, they have the commercial media scene sewn up.
     
  2. stephen bennett

    stephen bennett Mr Enigma

    Did any of you just listen to PM on Radio 4?

    Evan Davis read out the whole of the Seamus Milne email that the BBC has said 'proved' political interference in the anti-semitism inquiry.

    You can read it here.

    It looks to me that the BBC has been incredibly selective in what it quoted from that e-mail to 'prove' a point that they themselves has drawn.

    The programme was made by ex-Sun Journalist who obviously has an agenda that the BBC allowed him freedom to pursue.

    You will never 'fix' this. Corbyn has been a supporter of the Palestinian cause—he's fair game here.

    The idea that the Labour party is 'institutionally racist' is insulting to members, especially Jewish ones.

    Stephen







     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2019
    Arkless Electronics likes this.
  3. stephen bennett

    stephen bennett Mr Enigma

    True, but sometimes, you have to point out these disparities and the unfairness in the way that the media treats the left compared with the right.

    I didn't watch the Brexit programme. Did it demonstrate the company were racists without inventing 'evidence'?

    Stephen
     
  4. Still

    Still he said his naim was ralph

    istm that isn't the situation. Please contribute here (link)

    imsmc that and a whole lot more. Why not give it a spin?
     
  5. stephen bennett

    stephen bennett Mr Enigma

    If you are saying there are/may be racists in the Labour party (400K members?) well, of course there are.

    But if you are saying the party as a whole is 'institutionally' racist, there I would disagree.

    Stephen
     
  6. stephen bennett

    stephen bennett Mr Enigma

    Don't tease, still!

    Stephen
     
  7. stephen bennett

    stephen bennett Mr Enigma

    Do I have to? Can't you give me a précis?

    I'll just get depressed.

    So if that link does indeed demonstrate the what the press functions, I can soon expect a BBC Panorama programme edited by a ex—Guardian Journalist to cover the Tories on racism.

    Excellent.

    Stephen
     
  8. Still

    Still he said his naim was ralph

    Sorry Stephen. Our posts crossed, so to avoid confusion I thought it better to delete that post of mine.

    Symptoms of institutional AS include failure to effectively/transparently deal with the problem for years, shooting of messengers, blaming of victims, etc.
    That doesn't mean the whole of Labour is AS. istm the numbers of perpetrators involved are relatively small, but the harm is severe.

    :-D you asked for it!
     
  9. stephen bennett

    stephen bennett Mr Enigma

    It doesn't mean I have to watch it!

    I can get depressed on the Brexit threads here enough for both of us.

    Stephen
     
    Still likes this.
  10. stephen bennett

    stephen bennett Mr Enigma

    I need to go and make some music to cheer myself up ...

    Stephen
     
    Still likes this.
  11. sq225917

    sq225917 situation engineer

    I'm a member, not racist, same for the mrs.

    That there will be some is without doubt, as is the fact that this being fanned by the press and the blairite posse.
     
  12. Still

    Still he said his naim was ralph

    How has four odd years of denying and deflecting the AS problems worked out for Labour?
     
    jackbarron likes this.
  13. flatpopely

    flatpopely Prog Rock/Moderator

    But you've missed the real point, the BBC is doing what it is and Labour can't do anything about it. When will Labour address this?
    I suspect not as the leadership is naive, principled but naive.
     
  14. Seanm

    Seanm pfm Member

    While denialism is common in the party, it simply isn't true to say that Labour as a whole has spent the last 4 years denying and deflecting. What are your specific objections to the Chakrabarti Report? What is it, again specifically, about the reforms introduced since McNicol's team left that you think constitute denial and deflection?

    It's clear that this issue requires clear thinking, careful interventions, attention to different voices, balanced evaluation of measures and developments. Everything else is counterproductive: it makes reform more difficult and plays into the hands of the far right. What do you think you're accomplishing with statements like the above?
     
  15. Still

    Still he said his naim was ralph

    That's not what I have asserted.

    Nothing in particular except it hasn't solved it.

    The problems haven't been solved, and elements of Labour continue to deny/deflect/blame the victims.

    A small nudge towards ending of Labours' self defeating procrastination and omnishambles.
    It appears to have slipped your mind that I am a natural Lab voter, and very much wish for JC et al to be a credible opposition.
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2019
  16. ks.234

    ks.234 pfm Member

    The Labour Party has certainly not denied the AS problem. Deflection is more subjective, but not, I’d argue, accurate.

    Yes, it exists. Yes, it shouldn’t exist, especially in the Labour Party. But denying, no. Deflecting, arguably no.

    Yes, there is undoubtedly an AS problem, but there is also a lot of politicking (is there such a word?) and keeping them separate isn’t easy.
     
    Brian and bob atherton like this.
  17. Brian

    Brian Eating fat, staying slim

    I rather it’s all to do with the BBC just being a tory propaganda machine and it won’t matter what Labour does. Even if they fix this apparent problem it will be reported as not being fixed, or the right wing media will move onto something else.
     
  18. ks.234

    ks.234 pfm Member

    Not sure I understand this. Are you saying that if you’re attacked, it’s your fault for not beating them off?

    Seems like a Tommy Robinson defence to me
     
  19. flatpopely

    flatpopely Prog Rock/Moderator

    Correct, you didn’t understand what I wrote. Labour need to get wise to what’s happening.
     
  20. ks.234

    ks.234 pfm Member

    OK. You say, “the BBC is doing what it is and Labour can't do anything about it”, and go on to suggest that the reason that they can’t do anything is because the “leadership is naive”. What does that mean if not that they’re under attack and not defending themselves.

    You also say “labour need to get wise to what’s happening”. Does this mean something different to, labour doesn’t know what’s happening but you do?
     

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