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Living off the grid

Discussion in 'off topic' started by richgilb, Apr 19, 2019.

  1. Marky-Mark

    Marky-Mark pfm Member

    I'll take one if it comes with a Porsche dingey.
     
  2. Arkless Electronics

    Arkless Electronics Trade: Amp design and repairs.

    I find that post morally reprehensible! Although I'll admit that reductio absurdum you are logically correct.
    There are some things in this modern life which can only really be provided by a state, unless you are a millionaire.
    So you would I take it not allow any form of living off grid, living off the land, "alternative communities" etc because they could ultimately need hospitals or an ambulance? Only a secret millionaire should be allowed to live in a wattle and daub shack in the forest?

    I was once, a very long time ago, a new age traveller for a year. Ancient and traditional means of supporting ourselves had become obsolete/untenable and so we had no choice but to claim benefits, and yes if seriously ill we would use a hospital. I can see the argument that in order to reject society we had to take from society... but the alternative would have been not to do it at all... To accept being forced to conform to normality.

    I guess its always been a bette noir of mine that we are expected, compelled even, to live a very set "normal" life... we get a job, pay taxes, buy a car, pay more taxes, have 2.4 kids, get a brick house which we spend a lifetime paying for at a rate that makes profits for "the system" and then die.... Try to live in any way that more than slightly veers from that "plan", which we are expected to accept as our fate, and woe betide you! You must conform!

    The average minority has an easy time compared to the way we were treated. I'm talking literally being faced with a hundred villagers, a sea of gammon, some with pitch forks! Cow shit spread all over village greens, cricket pitches, church land etc to stop us using it... not that we would have anyway! All because we were needing to stop somewhere and they were determined it wouldn't be anywhere near them. We were peaceful and wanted nothing more than to find a clearing in a forest or some such and sit around the campfire playing guitars etc... The fear of "the other" has never been demonstrated more viscerally to me than this! A few places welcomed us, but mainly if we'd been Somali pirates, with leprosy, intent on raping their daughters and burning down the village church, we couldn't have been made more unwelcome. We were tailed by police, sometimes by helicopter, wherever we went. They would visit local shops, pubs etc and ask them not to serve us!

    Thatcher the bastard was determined to stop us and laws ostensibly passed to deal with the miners strike were used to make it impossible to live like that without being in breach of some or other new law, which could be applied at the discretion of a police officer... more than 6 people in a group could be told to disperse or be arrested... convoys of more than 3 vehicles could be split up or face confiscation of the vehicles... you could not stop overnight anywhere but on approved camp sites etc etc. Later, laws designed to stop raves (another can of worms) made it even more difficult. "Ethnic cleansing" (OK we were not an ethnic group but you know what I mean) used to deliberately destroy a lifestyle 'cos it was anathema to Daily Hate readers basically!

    Well that meandered all over the place....:rolleyes: But it proves the Beasty Boy's correct.. You've gotta fight for your right to party!:D
     
  3. Tony L

    Tony L Administrator

    It is not a question of conforming/non-conforming, it is paying your way. I have had a couple of fairly lengthy periods of unemployment in my life (I lived in Liverpool during the mass unemployment of the ‘80s), so I’m not without sympathy. I still grasp/respect that others, who may not be well-off, are expected to pay for benefits, healthcare etc, so have very little respect for those who actively choose to sponge off others. I never did, I was always at least trying to be productive even if often failing, e.g. I had countless small business attempts within the arts/music counterculture in which I lived. I was always doing something and trying to get off the dole. I’ve certainly little respect for stoners who just sit around with their hand out expecting the rest of society to pay for their ‘drop-out’ lifestyle, and I’m sorry, but that is largely my image of ‘new-age travellers’!
     
  4. richgilb

    richgilb Admonishtrator

    Tory.
     
  5. Cav

    Cav pfm Member

    You know the film Pulp Fiction?

    You chose to make yourselves bums and you thought you still had some entitlement?

    People like you give those in real need a bad name.
     
    Bob McC likes this.
  6. Arkless Electronics

    Arkless Electronics Trade: Amp design and repairs.

    My argument was presented in the knowledge that it was open to many counter arguments! The test of "if everyone was to follow your example what would the consequences be for the wider good?" being a prime one.
    I can justify it, at the time, in as much as it was during the mass unemployment times of the 80's and we were all unemployed and drawing benefits anyway so it made no difference to society whether we did so from a bedsit or from a bus....
    We did earn extra income as and where we could from a variety of means but it was too unreliable and made so little that there was no choice but to accept benefits as well.
    The point is that if we'd been unemployed in a bedsit and looked "normal" it was acceptable (grudgingly. It was widely understood that there were few jobs at the time) but if we looked different and lived in buses etc we were somehow the lowest scum in existence and a scourge to be wiped out! The ultimate "other".
     
  7. Tony L

    Tony L Administrator

    Not at all. I just believe taxation = civilisation. I want to live in a country with great education, healthcare, transport infrastructure, policing, arts funding etc etc and grasp that it can only come from taxation. Folk actively dodging tax, be they millionaires with offshore accounts, global corporations with complex offshore tax shenanigans or people at the other end of society are all working against that end.
     
    darrenyeats likes this.
  8. Arkless Electronics

    Arkless Electronics Trade: Amp design and repairs.

    Gee I hadn't had you as a Daily Hate reader.... Thanks for illustrating my point. Even recalling a year spent living this way 32 years in the past gets me abuse... pitchfork and burning cross at the ready Cav? :D
     
  9. Gaycha

    Gaycha Well-Known Member

    No, Tony.
     
    clifftaylor likes this.
  10. Arkless Electronics

    Arkless Electronics Trade: Amp design and repairs.

    I can't and won't (much:)) argue with that but to us, at the time, we'd left society... yeah yeah if we needed medical help we'd have run to hospital national insurance number at the ready etc and I won't dodge the hypocrisy bullet of that, but when you lived such a different existence to society in general, often in the middle of nowhere in a forest clearing, having to get up next to a frozen water butt and make a fire to cook breakfast on outdoors, both ostracised by society and trying to avoid it as much as was practical, you eventually started to feel like you were of a different tribe to the "normal's". Laws, taxes, being a citizen, being British or European, having a 9 to 5, whats on telly, how the footballs doing etc etc all became irrelevances to us in much the same way they would be to an Amazonian tribesman... they were nothing to do with us. That is honestly how it felt.
     
  11. Swamp Thing

    Swamp Thing Green Member

    Can you move them around?

    You could have a really cool game of Battleships.
     
  12. Cav

    Cav pfm Member

    So my first reply is gone.

    People like you, who can afford to choose to live "off the grid" as you call it, give those living in cardboard boxes who have no choice as to their circumstance a bad name.

    As for suggesting I am a Tory - I refer you to my previous comment which was go forth and multiply but I hope that is not possible.
     
  13. Arkless Electronics

    Arkless Electronics Trade: Amp design and repairs.

    Didn't see your first comment. Did you see the bit where I said we were all unemployed in Thatchers Britain anyway? So it made no difference if we signed on from a bus or a bed sit... We certainly couldn't "afford" to live off grid!
    We actually had several who had been homeless until they came and joined us and found a micro-society that was willing to welcome them in and help them. It was not an easy way of life...

    I'm more surprised than any other reaction that a socialist like yourself should take such opprobrium at people being unemployed whilst living an alternative lifestyle as opposed to being unemployed living "normally"
     
    kendo likes this.
  14. kendo

    kendo Prussian bot

    Did you ever make it to Letham in Angus for the Pictish Festival up on Dunnichen Hill, Jez? That was a fine gathering of alternative life-style folks for a few years 'til the outlaw bike gang f*cked it up.
     
  15. Arkless Electronics

    Arkless Electronics Trade: Amp design and repairs.

    I didn't no... mainly southern England and Wales in my traveller days.... but was an outlaw biker myself!
     
  16. thebiglebowski

    thebiglebowski pfm Member

    The whole idea of taxation should be to provide healthcare, education and support for the disabled, vulnerable and unemployed with no strings attached (and free)

    I have no issue with people wanting to live off the grid or "alternatively" and I'm happy for my taxes to support them.

    If our taxes weren't squandered by stupid politicians it would be quite easily to ensure everyone has a good standard of living.

    And I consider myself to be right wing :)
     
    jtrade likes this.
  17. vuk

    vuk \o/ choose anarchy

    squandered on things like defense spending?
     
  18. thebiglebowski

    thebiglebowski pfm Member

    Partially, trident is a waste of money but the armed services are not.

    But I suspect you already knew my opinion of the armed services and are just trolling.
     
    gintonic and Chops54 like this.
  19. Bob McC

    Bob McC Living the life of Riley

    I doubt it.
    You were considered that because you made no contribution to the welfare system you chose to use to feed you, clothe you and keep you healthy.
     
  20. Bob McC

    Bob McC Living the life of Riley

    What a ridiculous proposition.

    You advocate a completely unsustainable approach.
     

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