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Lowering the risk of being infected by SARS-CoV-2

Discussion in 'off topic' started by Joe P, Mar 29, 2020.

  1. stevec67

    stevec67 pfm Member

    Very effective. The detergent disrupts the lipid layer of the virus.

    As regerads "assuming everything that is delivered is contaminated", I'd say this was unlikely at present. There just are not enough people with the disease yet out in the population, and infection via food packaging is going to be far less likely than person to person. I'd therefore say it's a very low risk. Howeevr it costs you nothing to protect against it if you think it's worth it for your own personal risk level.
     
    Mullardman likes this.
  2. Nick_G

    Nick_G pfm Member

    Like the woman at our local shop earlier in the month who'd been coughing and then wiping her nose on her sleeve just before she served me. Even though I made sure I didn't touch my face and washed my hands as soon as I got home from that shop, I caught something a bit cold/flu-like a few days later...
     
  3. Tony L

    Tony L Administrator

    I’m working on the assumption that the government figures are utter bollocks, which is the logical approach as they are simply not testing random population samples at all. The current UK dataset is absolutely meaningless aside from the death-toll. I’m also factoring-in that there are credible reports from elsewhere that the number of asymptomatic carriers may be as high as 50% of those who get the disease, and again there is credible information to support this. Given younger folk tend to be the pickers/shelf-stacker/delivery drivers there is a pretty good chance they may be in the asymptomatic 50% if/when they get it.

    I don’t have enough data to establish the risk something in my order may be contaminated, no one does as the stats are just not there, but given my own chance of surviving this disease if I get it is likely only around 90-95% I’m taking as few risks as I possibly can. That is simply not a level of risk I would ever willingly take in my day to day life.
     
  4. Joe

    Joe pfm Member

    That doesn't really answer Tony's issue though.

    Your answer is based on "averaging"

    Tony's worry is the Russian Roulette issue.

    He might get the chamber that has the bullet in it ( is his worry )
     
  5. Bob McC

    Bob McC Living the life of Riley

    what makes you think it has any veracity?
    Did you see it on Twitter or some tin hat nut job website?
     
  6. stevec67

    stevec67 pfm Member

    Certainly true. I know of 2 people, a father and daughter, who probably have it, in Grimsby of all places, and they have symptoms but are not leaving the house. It's a safe bet that the man's wife will also catch it, and I think they have another daughter at home. None of these people are on the tally, nor will they be unless they are hospitalised. None are high risk, aged 45-50 and teenage children.

    I think the risk of catching it via an inert vector is very low indeed, it has an 8 hour half life on hard materials and you need an infective dose. However as you imply this is a choice for you and your own risk assessment. You can do all this at a cost of time alone, so if you see fit then you can.
     
  7. Bob McC

    Bob McC Living the life of Riley

    I’m using a weak bleach solution on packaged products I buy.
    I think it’s more effective than washing up liquid in hot water.
    I have no data to back me up though.
     
    tqineil likes this.
  8. stevec67

    stevec67 pfm Member

    Of course, that's the nature of risk assessment. We all take risks of the order of one in a million every time we get in the car, we all know this yet we still get in the car.. I'll take a 1 in a million risk every day of the week, and I do. I drive, ride a bike, cross the road, go climbing. However if one day I am that one out of the million, then oh sh*t. I don't care about the other 999,999, I only care about my personal risk. But that's life. I can still get lung cancer even if I've never been a smoker. Happen to encounter asbestos by chance in an old roof, who knows? I know at first hand I just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time when I was cycling and got hit by a car. Life changing injuries. "You were lucky to survive Steve". Not as f*ing lucky as I would have been if I'd been 30 seconds faster or 30 seconds slower, or as lucky as I would hav ebeen if I'd just stayed at home that afternoon. That's the nature of risk. Anything can happen at Backgammon.
     
  9. Rallye_punk

    Rallye_punk pfm Member

    Ah I knew there'd be a thread on COVID on PFM, forget all other websites this is surely the best place for valuable info!

    I agree with Tony about the stats, complete BS as there is no way to obtain accurate figures unless you're testing everyone, and I mean everyone. It's all a best guess.

    With regard to the shopping, could you leave it in the garage for a week as surely everything that lives on the packaging would be dead by then (presumably)? I am not going too mad with it, i'm not far off 40 and am under no illusions about how dangerous this is but there's only so much you can do. Unless you live in a bubble and never leave said bubble. You have to buy food which will have been handled by hundreds of people and disinfecting every piece of packaging seems utterly painstaking. I still think washing your hands before you eat is the best bet. Good hygeine is key. I watched a 40min video by a South Korean virologist who basically said we should all be wearing masks when outside in public places (not walking in the countryside for example) and washing your hands thoroughly on a regular basis, and avoid touching your hands and mouth!
     
  10. stevec67

    stevec67 pfm Member

    It probably is. I do have the data, or at least supporting information with which to make an informed guess. My take is that both will work. If you want to use bleach because it's probably better, then why not? It's dirt cheap. You won't do any harm.
     
  11. TheDecameron

    TheDecameron Unicorns fart glitter.

    If you want to be complete, wash then apply bleach solution. Debulk contamination first then let the stragglers have it with your bleach.
     
  12. stevec67

    stevec67 pfm Member

    Yes you could. 3 days is reckoned to be long enough. However I wouldn't leave food in the garage for long, I get mice in there and that's a bigger risk to health. Of course you can hang the bags up, I've done this many times in mountain huts with mice.
     
  13. Bob McC

    Bob McC Living the life of Riley

    Any unpackaged fruit and veg go in my porch for at least 24 hours before any is used.
    A week is totally un necessary.
     
  14. Rallye_punk

    Rallye_punk pfm Member

    Mouse vs. Covid, what's worse! :D Good call on leaving it hanging though. I think the importance of having 'good' germs in our lives is not disucssed wnough either. Being too clean is not great for your immune system either, there's a happy medium eh?
     
  15. tqineil

    tqineil pfm Member

    2-3% bleach in water is effective in cleaning down hard surfaces that might contain pathogens, sensible approach then
     
  16. Rockmeister

    Rockmeister pfm Member

    I have an old (clean) dustbin in the garage. Bleached it out and now the groceries that can, go in there straight from the shop, in the shopping bags for 3 days. Products that need to be refrigerated come in to a dirty kitchen table, are then washed down/debagged as required and stored. The packaging is binned and we, the table and all cupboard doors and handles are then washed down too. The post is placed in a plastic bag and ignored for 2 days.
    Please don't use neat bleach! One drop in your eyes and you are in deep trouble. If you must, at least 50% water will be very effective. FAR better to use soap...any soap and hot water.
    Disinfectants are fine, but can you buy them now?

    I thought the OP video was good. Basic sense...a bit of a faff but that is America...there are reasons why some clear, simple and OTT precautions are advisable there.
     
  17. k90tour

    k90tour pfm Member

    I haven't been out for a couple of weeks and have had a Waitrose delivery. I hope my routine is effective....
    Have front door open and hallway through house absolutely clear. The bags are brought into a clear space in the living room without touching anything on the way. Then I wash my hands. Close and lock front door.
    back to the bathroom to put a little soap and water onto my hand and one by one bring into the bathroom items that must be immediately refrigerated. I wash them as though I was washing my hand with the soap and water and leave them to stand in the centre of the bath. It's mainly just milk, meat and orange juice. Thorough lather. Then wash hands again , including soap dispenser and tap. Rinse meat and milk and take it down to the fridge. The bags stay in the living room for 3-4 days, including any fruit and vegetables.
    Anything that is delivered goes into a space in the living room and is quarantined for at least 72 hours.
    The Molton Brown hand cream comes out in a minute and I'll be very glad to have it in use now.
    I do have some Milton ( I use it to clean sports drink bottles usually). but I find soap easier to apply and easier to rinse off. If it's not good enough for hands, we're in trouble anyway.
    I assume washing up liquid is equally effective?
     
  18. monkfish

    monkfish pfm Member

    The Linn Korona ?
     
    Roger Adams and ff1d1l like this.
  19. ff1d1l

    ff1d1l pfm Member

    With the Kovid 19 cartridge....
     
    k90tour and TheDecameron like this.
  20. Mullardman

    Mullardman Moderately extreme...

    Exactly. Many times here I've quoted an old Psychology lecturer who said.. "Your chances of dying in an air crash may only be 0.000000000001%.. but IF you die in an air crash you are 100% dead.

    I've minimised risk as best I can by not entering any building other than home nor going within an absolute minimum of 2 metres from anyone but Mrs Mull. Since 6th March.

    As for food/packaging etc. The whole point of decontamination is to prevent transfer from those items to yourself via your hands/mouth/eyes. The best and quickest way to ensure that is by treating every possible piece of packaging with a substance which will kill the virus. Even paper can be wiped with a damp bleachy cloth. It goes temporarily a bit limp, but comes to no harm. This includes mail.

    It takes a couple of minutes.

    You either assume everything might be contaminated, or you don't. Half measures are pointless.

    The full measures I'm taking are quick and easy. Nothing needs to be stored while I wait for the virus to die of boredom or old age. I just kill it.
     
    ff1d1l likes this.

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