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Making the classifieds a safer environment....

Discussion in 'classifieds' started by Ant, Jul 28, 2011.

  1. Rack Kit

    Rack Kit pfm Member

    How cool is that? :cool:

    Thanks for the tip!


    (who's been doing more buying than selling, so thinks there should be a good buyers thread too :D )
  2. Darth Vader

    Darth Vader From the Dark Side

    I wouldn't rely on the 'good guys' search. I have bought and sold a lot of stuff over the last 6 years (even from Tony) and I'm not on the list.

    Also it is easy to cheat a place on that thread. Create two accounts one for seller and other for buyer (I have loads of spare email addresses some are off shore). The buyer fills the sellers PM box with 10 messages then the seller posts in the classifieds. After several complaints about a full in box seller announces sale to buyer. Later on the buyer posts good feedback for the seller. The trap has been primed.

    You have to think like them.......


  3. ian r

    ian r 401's Nakman

    Yeah I dont think Im on it either after buys from Martin, Fox, a very little from Tony. I cant even recall who I bought the Naks from but I also sold my briks for over a 1000 via PFM apparetly without issue!

    Otherwise Im not sure Im a good guy
  4. fullahead

    fullahead pfm Member

    Always do the research,even if someone is on the list.
    Ive sold a Hicap,Teddy Super Cap,Beresford Dac,Avondale Mainline cables, Attenuators and a few other bits. All sales went thru quickly and without any problems. I'm not on the list,it dont make me dodgey. If I was on the list it dont change anything. Always do the checks ,google address ,phone number, paypal a/c ect.
  5. Rodrat

    Rodrat pfm Member

    Unless you already know the seller or buyer, I would have no objection to either asking in public for feedback. I know a few will take it as a slight but it would seem the most transparent way.
  6. Adam N

    Adam N pfm Member

    AV Forums have a built in trader rating system, it's easy, quick and shows up next to your profile when posting. It's a simple +1 0 -1 system voting system that requires you to enter the transaction thread. I'd suggest this as a first step.

    Keeping all communications on thread until a deal is agreed is also a good idea so moderators can easily keep track of what is going on.

    Perhaps finally when a deal is agreed both parties are required to exchange full contact details including a landline number via PM, which is then copied to a moderator?
  7. Cable Monkey

    Cable Monkey A chip on both shoulders...

    The AV Forums system is very organised. The guys did put a lot of effort into policing (age limitations, trading bans while still able to post and an intensive moderator presence). They also insist all offers and deals are done in open forum, not via PM for total transparency. If you want a system like that you will need to put a lot of work in maintaining it, all to support a system that the owner of the forum makes no money from. AV forums were interested in footfall so it was worthwhile for them but that is not necessarily what all forums are about.
  8. Adam N

    Adam N pfm Member

    The moderating would require effort, yes, however I would think that the iTrader rating is a feature of the forum they ran (originally vB?) so not difficult, and it's a first easy step.

    I also agree about deals being done in an open thread as I mentioned earlier. If you offer the facility to trade within your forums then a degree of oversight is necessary, if this requires financing, then I'm sure there are suitable painless methods, even something like a classified subscription allowing access? It would deter scammers and trolls.
  9. sq225917

    sq225917 situation engineer

    Pfm doesn't benefit from the sales threads so it's not Tony's 'job' to police them proactively.

    It's easy to get scammed. Always make sure that everything you know about the seller matches up. Names, locations, bank details, sort code addresses. Never transfer money to a bank account that doesn't share as sort code address with the sellers stated location.
  10. rbz5416

    rbz5416 pfm Member

    Several banks have a single sort code for all current accounts & aren't location specific. So using that yardstick I could never sell anything unless I moved to Swindon where my bank's HQ is.

    Although having said, that despite a four year membership, I'm now excluded anyway. But it's Tony's site & his rules so I'm not complaining.
  11. Tony L

    Tony L Administrator

    From what little I know of it the iTrader plug-in seems like overkill, and is targeted more at forums where the classifieds facility is the main reason for existence. I actually rather like the solution we've arrived at recently where we limit sales to those who have at least taken their first steps in the community by making a certain number of posts in the discussion areas. This provides something for people to review, and will hopefully have the side benefit of flushing some lurkers out and encouraging them to become active and productive members of the community.

    If there really is a requirement for a ratings system I could possibly be persuaded to implement the inbuilt vBulletin system (as used on WigWam etc), though I'm not fully convinced of it's merit. The last thing I want to do is present any false sense of security - the responsibility for all classified sales rests entirely with those participating. It is caveat emptor, and it always will be. People need to do their own research and background checks before sending anything to anyone they meet on the internet. This is just common sense and has always been the policy of this site.
  12. James N

    James N pfm Member

    ... but I might have moved from Lands End (where my branch is) to John O'Groats (where I live now)
  13. James N

    James N pfm Member

    Could you just allow the ratings to be made on the classifieds part of the forum?

    Also if it allows comments (I dont know if it does) then it will contain the same information as the 'feedback' topic, but in a much more user friendly way.
  14. chiily

    chiily PFM Special Builder

    I'm not on the good guys thread, but I have been member of PFM from the very first days and I've previously bought bits and bobs from PFM members in the past.

    Is is just buyer beware I'm afraid. A level of trust needs to be established and just text on a screen doesn't really do it for me. So, I would insist on a land line telephone number to talk to the seller/buyer before any money changed hands. Failing that meeting in person can't be beat.

    I think setting forum metrics as hurdles is the wrong thing to do. Being a clued in buyer is the right thing to do. And if you don't trust 'em and the deal looks to good, then step away.

    Having said all that, maybe the hurdle should be completing a DIY project. Everyone will know you by the end of the build!!
  15. nat8808

    nat8808 pfm Member

    I'll agree it's not Tony's job not to actively police the classifieds but I'd disagree that forums don't benefit from them at all.

    Firstly, many many people discover the forums via classifieds before actively participating in the forum. That's how I started for example - how else would I know they existed?

    Secondly it's the meeting of like minded audiophiles in person through the classifieds that bring stronger bonds between members that then benefit the forums as a whole.

    Thirdly, if it's important at all, classifieds on forums are the lubrication that keeps the ball rolling on discussion - opinions on new bits of kit etc etc. Without people's constant changing of systems, there wouldnt' be so much discussion going on other than between the more well off discussing new purchases.
  16. dynoport

    dynoport New Member

    Hello, I want to post a 'wanted' ad but cannot because I have not posted enough times, is there a way around this? :(
  17. leermakers

    leermakers Member

    Same for me, trying to sell some flat earth gear a lot of us on this forum like. I could initiate threads six months ago, but now no longer, because 'insufficient posts'... Tony, is there a solution?
  18. rbz5416

    rbz5416 pfm Member

    Maybe a nominal one-off donation via Paypal Gift to make it worth Tony's while going through the requests for exceptions? That would be up to him to determine though.
  19. leermakers

    leermakers Member

    That's an interesting one ! Let me try it out ;)
  20. alanchamberlain

    alanchamberlain pfm Member

    it shouldn't take that long to manage 50 posts

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