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Need help with hot running Garrard Motor

Discussion in 'd.i.y.' started by Singlemania45, May 28, 2013.

  1. Singlemania45

    Singlemania45 Member

    A recent purchase and a few problems to solve. The motor was running for about 1hr then started to drift and then stabalise then drift again. The motor seems to be running too hot and emits a slight overheating smell. The turntable bearing is fine and has been oiled so its either the motor or one of these two components in the supply chain. I guess the disc is a capacitor (shunt?) but I cant work out its value to get a replacement. I'm not sure what the other component is and its purpose. I'd rather replace the components first before thinking about sending the motor off to be rewound. Your help would be most appreciated.

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  2. sq225917

    sq225917 situation engineer

    Excess heat will have nothing to do with the motor windings, so do not consider a rewind-that would destroy the motor, they'd never be able to balance it correctly.

    Excess heat will come from friction from the bushing/bearings at the end of the motor shaft, these can be replaced relatively cheaply.

    I'd suggest you avail yourself of the services of a genuine Garrard rebuild specialist.
     
  3. sq225917

    sq225917 situation engineer

    The inductor and the varistor look like they have been added later, I would check to see if they are original fitment and if not remove them and replace the original spark suppressor if that has failed.
     
  4. divedeepdog

    divedeepdog pfm Member

    They do run warm, especially in a tight fitting plinth.
    As its a new purchase, strip down an lube the proper areas do you know it's been done properly.

    The new found value of these decks has meant them coming out of garages and lofts to make a quick buck.

    I'm also finding the right lube for the bearing critical for performance.

    There's plenty of pictures and help on the web, but if your unsure, find someone that knows what they're doing, it'll be worth it in the end :)
     
  5. 337alant

    337alant Negatively Biased

    The 401 motor does run hot I know mine does but it doesent drift?
    The bearing's on the motor do dry out and there isnt any other way to lubricate the bottom bearing except to dismantle it, that could be the source of the problem and you could be damaging the bearings by running it.
    The motor is a 240v AC motor and doesent need any capacitors?.
    I can't see your picture's from my works computer but the only capacitors there are from memory is accross the switch as spark suppressor's these do go leaky and are worth replaing. I think they are 0.01uf I wouldnt pay the price they want for original replacements though £25 :eek: a couple of 400v Wimas would do the trick.
    The idler wheel can cause drifting if its hard or contaminated with oil, so make sure the rubber is spottlesly clean I use my R2R pinch roller cleaner and conditioner.
    Polish the internal surface that it sits on as well insite the platter this has to be spotlessly clean and a mirror finish if you can do it as they do run better.
    the idler wheel only need a tiny drop of oil on the bearing and it should run very freely.
    Also check the break isnt dragging and springs have not been overstreached on the motor or idler

    Get all your spares from here, http://www.perfectsound.co.uk/store/4/

    Alan
     
  6. 337alant

    337alant Negatively Biased

    Just another thought I am assuming you live in the UK and have a 240V 50hz motor?, check as it may have a 60hz motor with a phase shift cap ?.

    I can see your pictures now and I don’t recognise the motor or the switch they are nothing like the Garrard 401 anyway, so could you confirm the turntable model?.

    If that is 240V wiring to that switch it is very dangerous and could make you top plate live

    Alan
     
  7. Singlemania45

    Singlemania45 Member

    SQ - Thanks you so much for your help with this. I think the components are the original ones. I stripped the Motor down and cleaned the shaft and the bearings at both end lubed them with Mobil 6 then reassembled. The noise and drift have vanished and heat has reduced to much lower levels which reaffirms what Alan says is typical of garrard motors.

    Alan - The t/t is a lowly GT250 which I have made fully manual by decoupling the 2nd belt from the sub-platter to the auto mechanism and arm.
    Concerning the live wiring I removed the sleeve to expose the components. They are now fully encased. The top plate is plastic so no risk of it going live apart from vibration if it isnt isolated :D

    With the service I performed, replacement of the signal lead and rca plugs and the change to manual it plays remarkably well for a budget deck. I'm listening at the moment to a Grado Gold and it sounds wonderful with no sign of any induced hum caused by the un-shielded motor. I only got this t/t as I had a number of headshells but only arms with fixed headshells. With a big collection of unused carts sitting around I wanted to experiment a bit with the minimum of fuss. Most of the carts are grado prestige style bodies or other makes with the same body height so vta isnt a problem. All I need to do is set the vtf and anti skate.

    Thank you both again for your help.
     
  8. Tony L

    Tony L Administrator

    It's worth checking your mains voltage. If at the high-end of the range you'll likely have to run with the eddy-brake (fine speed knob) adding a lot of physical drag / resistance to the motor to pull the deck down to speed. This generates heat. It's just what Garrards, TD-124s etc do. One option is to drop the voltage a bit by wiring an old-style lightbulb in series. This is how I run my TD-124 at present, though I have a Martin Bastin PSU on order. I'm in a very high voltage area (always over 250v) and I need the eddy brake pretty much full on with that deck unless the bulb is wired in. My 301 seems more able to cope with the local voltage, but it's worth considering a bulb as an option - it drops the heat output a lot, though there is a trade-off in torque, so choose your lightbulb wisely. My 301 motor does get hot after a few hours running - you'd not want to keep a finger pressed on it. I am absolutely certain this is voltage / eddy-current brake related, stick the lightbulb in and the motor runs way cooler.
     

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