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Neumann KH 310 A and dual subwoofers ?

Discussion in 'audio' started by igor_xxxx, May 30, 2019.

  1. igor_xxxx

    igor_xxxx pfm Member

    ...to continue on this from one of the latest subwoofer threads :)

    Since last year I am toying with the idea of purchasing a Neumann KH 805 subwoofer/s to go with my KH310 active monitors, but due to potential placement issues and having a small child at home, I never really went for it.

    I gave up on the idea of a subwoofer, until I saw the newly announced sub from Neumann, the sealed KH 705 few months ago.Now this sub, can be much more easily integrated in the living room, so I am back to square one - should I go for it?

    The main thing that concerns me, and for which I need some advice (or a push) is that the current monitors are the most "full range" system that I've had, so I don't know what to expect from adding two subwoofers and those extra hz in the low end.

    I mostly listen to jazz and clasical music, with the occasional funk, soul and etc.Movie time at the moment is limited to my HD700 due to a small child and watching late at night, but I hope to switch back to my monitors in the near future, so then it will be important.

    Why I think I need a subwoofer, or what I would like to change? Well, I listen now from 2-2.5 meters away from the monitors and although I am really happy how they sound, I think I am missing the low foundation of the sound.I listen to the music, but somehow I don't feel the ambient/punch or how to call it.It sounds good, but I am not "feeling" it :)

    I have a few bass traps, some absorption points, a lot of non-parallel walls, bookshelfs, curtains and etc, so it's far away from a sterile or empty room.On a really well recorded (dare not say audiophile) music, the low end almost feels good, but 1) I don't listen to this kind of music, and 2) I still only hear the low end.

    So, if I was able to be even a little bit understandable, what advise can you give me? Will 2 subs improve the sound reproduction, or considering the music that I listen, I should stick with the 310's?

    Thanks,
    Igor
     
    Musicraft likes this.
  2. Purité Audio

    Purité Audio Trade: Purite Audio

    Once you have a ‘full-range’ sound you can’t go back, just integrate the subs properly and deal with any room issues the new low bass may cause, an inexpensive MiniDSP processor will do both.
    Keith
     
    FireMoon and igor_xxxx like this.
  3. Darren

    Darren All Business

    Just how to you expect the child to grow up properly if not exposed to real bass early on? My system went down to at least 25 Hz while my two were little :)
     
  4. Musicraft

    Musicraft Trade: Musicraft

    Nice one :cool: and yes go for it. A subwoofer is the most important main component. Life's too short for a sub less system :)
     
    Darren and igor_xxxx like this.
  5. Musicraft

    Musicraft Trade: Musicraft

    [QUOTE="igor_xxxx, post: 3682005, member: 27429'']The main thing that concerns me, and for which I need some advice (or a push) is that the current monitors are the most "full range" system that I've had, so I don't know what to expect from adding two subwoofers and those extra hz in the low end.[/QUOTE]

    It's not about just plugging the gap. As i've said before why have the mains needlessly busting their guts when all things being equal a subwoofer/s will deal with and reproduce these low frequencies far more effectively.

    It looks like the sub offers bass management. If so, then don't waste the potential of the subwoofer/s. Unburden the mains by crossing over at or as close to 80Hz and pass this low frequency burden on to the sub/s. If effectively calibrated/dialled the sub/s should integrate seamlessly with the mains and disappear into the soundstage even at these high crossover frequencies.
     
    igor_xxxx likes this.
  6. igor_xxxx

    igor_xxxx pfm Member

    That's one of the best advises that I've got and I will use it to my advantage - if it's needed in the following days :)

    It's not about just plugging the gap. As i've said before why have the mains needlessly busting their guts when all things being equal a subwoofer/s will deal with and reproduce these low frequencies far more effectively.

    It looks like the sub offers bass management. If so, then don't waste the potential of the subwoofer/s. Unburden the mains by crossing over at or as close to 80Hz and pass this low frequency burden on to the sub/s. If effectively calibrated/dialled the sub/s should integrate seamlessly with the mains and disappear into the soundstage even at these high crossover frequencies.

    To hear the full colour, conviction and energy of music or movies then the use of a sub/s is essential.[/QUOTE]
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I see where you are going with this - makes sense to me :) I was under the impression that being a 3-way active monitors, reproducing the low frequencies from a dedicated amplifier should not present such a burden, but looks like I am wrong.
     
    Darren and Musicraft like this.
  7. Musicraft

    Musicraft Trade: Musicraft

    Until you've got effectively calibrated/dialled in sub/s then I don't think you'll ever be truly content. Sub bass fq's are best left to a subwoofer/s to deal with.
     
    igor_xxxx likes this.
  8. MattSPL

    MattSPL pfm Member

    Looks like a nice sub. 2 will massively improve your speakers.
    Be aware though that the bass feeling often requires high spl’s to create.
    Ported subs provide more bass feel due to the air flow, but arguably aren’t as accurate.
     
    igor_xxxx likes this.
  9. Musicraft

    Musicraft Trade: Musicraft

    Ime, it still does present a needless burden on the amp/s and the drivers. Why send a boy to do a mans work.
     
    MattSPL and igor_xxxx like this.
  10. Musicraft

    Musicraft Trade: Musicraft

    Btw, igor a track that I often use to dial in a sub/s is Shadow of a Thousand Lives (Animatronix). Please try and use this track as it'll help integrate the sub/s seamlessly with the mains and disappear into the soundstage. Remember we don't want to fatten up the sound but to add strength with toned muscle. Get this balance right and rest jazz, classical, etc. will fall into place and you'll then find it difficult to go back to a sub less system.
     
    igor_xxxx and MattSPL like this.
  11. igor_xxxx

    igor_xxxx pfm Member

    That’s good to hear, and regarding the “bass feeling” comment, @Musicraft explained it much better then me with the following sentence...

    ...which is exactly what I am hoping to achieve.
     
    Musicraft and MattSPL like this.
  12. igor_xxxx

    igor_xxxx pfm Member

    Well, 2 subs are ordered.

    Thanks to everybody for the support and the required “push” that I needed :)

    It will take some time for them to be delivered, it looks like there is quite a waiting time for them by the distributor, but hope it will be worth it.
     
    Musicraft and MattSPL like this.
  13. h.g.

    h.g. pfm Member

    Unlike most home audio subs they seem to contain the required features to integrate with the main speakers and the room. 10" drivers in sealed cabinets a bit over a foot cubed in dimensions is probably around the sweet point for multiple subs in the home for listening to music. Price looks reasonable and they seem to be in stock in the pile em high sell em cheap studio outlets. It would be good to know how you get on with integrating them with your main speakers and the room.
     
    igor_xxxx and Musicraft like this.
  14. MattSPL

    MattSPL pfm Member

    Have you used Room EQ Wizard(REW) with a measurement microphone like the Umik-1?
    This will help greatly with proper setup and integration, particularly getting the precise timing the same between speakers and subs. It looks like the subs offer a full set of delay options reading from the specs.
     
    igor_xxxx and Musicraft like this.
  15. igor_xxxx

    igor_xxxx pfm Member

    Thanks, I will share my impressions and ask for some advices in due time.

    I last used REW and my UMIK mic a long time ago, believe it was in the early days when I setup the monitors for the first time in the new flat.

    For sure I will need help with this subject in order to achieve as smooth as possible integration in the room.
     
    MattSPL likes this.
  16. Musicraft

    Musicraft Trade: Musicraft

    Nice one :cool:
     
    igor_xxxx likes this.
  17. Musicraft

    Musicraft Trade: Musicraft

    You're welcome. With effectively calibrated/dialled in subs you'll now hear the full conviction, conviction and energy of your music and movies which other components and accessories at the most only hint at.

    Btw, please also try co locating (stacking) the subs. The waves from the subs will couple and with around a 6dB in gain as opposed to around a 3dB in gain when the subs are separated.
     
    igor_xxxx likes this.
  18. igor_xxxx

    igor_xxxx pfm Member

    They are here, and they sound mighty impressive :)

    I can’t believe how much I was missing until now.

    More impressions will follow...

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
    radamel, MattSPL, ff1d1l and 4 others like this.
  19. Darren

    Darren All Business

    We told you!!! and they look fantastic too. Well Done. Hope you enjoy.
     
    igor_xxxx and Musicraft like this.
  20. cooky1257

    cooky1257 pfm Member

    They look great.
     
    igor_xxxx and Musicraft like this.

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