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NHS turmoil is just the start of Tory ideology run wild

Discussion in 'off topic' started by internet radio, Feb 22, 2011.

  1. Brian

    Brian Eating fat, staying slim

    One of your better posts there.
  2. Greg

    Greg 2t5b

    Well put, Joe.

    I'm not remotely suggesting that the Victorian system was a halcyon period for the mentally ill. I know that system's issues well as my uncle was in that system.

    On the other hand the replacement "system" was fundamentally flawed as a result of that "unholy alliance", as Joe puts it.

    Essentially: rampant cost-cutting/reallocation lead to terrible consequences for those people and plenty of their families and members of the public who suffered too as a result.
  3. simeon

    simeon No fixed engagements

    Think of it as a trial run for the Big Society...
  4. Jo Sharp

    Jo Sharp Pulls on doors marked push

    I used the 50% figure because the normal RPI adjusted figure is used to compare year on year spending in all govt departments. Taking a specially weighted factor for the NHS can be misleading as it does not allow straight comparisons between govt depts..comparing apples and pears etc.

    So the facts remain: the figure I quoted from the University of York paper was correct; it was not a fabrication which you accused me of.

    A pity you don't seem able to find the good manners to withdraw your insult (the second time in weeks you have accused me in public of lying).
  5. Greg

    Greg 2t5b

    Indeed, Simeon.

    Of course the B.S. idea is nothing new. It used to be known (in more honest terms) as Laissez Faire:

    It is a natural state for the blue blooded Tory and for them it appears to follow a natural path - i.e. natural selection. Those that swim, swim; those that sink? Well...

    All seems so simple, yet in reality it's anything but.
  6. Paul R

    Paul R pfm Member

    Greg appeared to be alluding to 'Care in the Community' which was an erroneous allusion.

    But I guess facts are irrelevant, history is bunk and Insane Asylums are Great because THATCHER was PM when some were CLOSED.

  7. Joe Hutch

    Joe Hutch Mate of the bloke

  8. cooky1257

    cooky1257 pfm Member

    My lad was watching a demo on the news last night showing public sector workers carrying the now familiar morphed Cameron/Thatch portrait when he hilariously commented that Thatch, on seeing these would say "that's a bit harsh, I wasn't this bad".
  9. Greg

    Greg 2t5b

    Paul, whether there was a label for the process at that time, I don't recall.

    Regards your latter paragraph, I think I addressed that type of wilful misinterpretation in my previous post.
  10. Paul R

    Paul R pfm Member

    'Care in the Community' wasn't a label, it was an Act of Parliament.

    I think you don't speak for the entity that manifests as 'Brian'.


    Is equally a misinterpretation.

  11. Greg

    Greg 2t5b

    Well, either way, in my experience the mentally ill suddenly started getting put out into the community shortly after Thatch came to power. Do you have an explanation for that?
    Paul, the concept of Laissez-Faire underpins a considerable portion of Tory ideology. It is a natural by-product of small government. I accept that many Tories have a social conscience, but if the rate and method of cuts is anything to go by, the Tory government is showing a flash of Laissez-Faire in my opinion.
  12. demersal

    demersal Banned

    So, if the process started shortly after MrsT got in, given the very slow pace of Govt and local authority process implementation, isn't there a possibility that the decision to close them was made shortly before or even some time before she came to power?
  13. Greg

    Greg 2t5b

    We're talking (in my experience), 1982/83 so maybe, but then given the principles of Josephism probably most likely Thatch related.
  14. Tigerjones

    Tigerjones Bagpuss

    Care in the Community (also called "Community Care" or "Domiciled Care") is the British policy of deinstitutionalization, treating and caring for physically and mentally disabled people in their homes rather than in an institution. Institutional care was the target of widespread criticism during the 1960s and 1970s[1], but it was not until the 1980s that the government of Margaret Thatcher adopted a new policy of care after the Audit Commission published a report called 'Making a Reality of Community Care which outlined the advantages of domiciled care.

    From the interwebs
  15. Tony L

    Tony L Administrator

    It was an admirable aim when viewed in that manner. Institutionalisation was a huge problem, I worked with many old patients who had been admitted as young men and had never left the ward since. Many had case note with exceptionally basic "intelligence of a donkey" type diagnosis and surprisingly little review since. Their whole life was a endless cycle of hospital routine: woken up early morning, bathed, drugged, fed, sat in front of the TV, drugged, fed, allowed to make macrame basket, taken to the toilet, drugged, fed, put to bed. Repeat until dead (same as any old people's home really). Very far from ideal, but I'd take it over making them sleep in cardboard boxes under railway arches etc with no meds to combat the schizophrenia / bipolar disorder etc which was frequently the reality of "care in the community".
  16. matthewr

    matthewr spɹɐʍʞɔɐq spɹoɔǝɹ ɹnoʎ sʎɐld

    If you replaced the making Macrame basket with surfing the Internetz then I might be up for that. Tell me more about the drugs?
  17. demersal

    demersal Banned

  18. Joe Hutch

    Joe Hutch Mate of the bloke

    I blame Enoch Powell and RD Laing!
  19. demersal

    demersal Banned

  20. Tigerjones

    Tigerjones Bagpuss

    My mum worked, for over 30 years, (just about to retire) as a Mental Health Worker on the other side, in the community. From what she tells me it was one long battle both in terms of it being a thankless and demanding task and in trying to do the best they could with very little funding, staff and appropriate accomodation for the people they cared for. I don't know how she, and countless others, coped with it all for so long really. My hat goes of to people like this that are prepared to give so much for so little return.

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