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Notre Dame Cathedral on fire

Discussion in 'off topic' started by Tony L, Apr 15, 2019.

  1. Bob McC

    Bob McC Living the life of Riley

    So’s Venice!
  2. gavreid

    gavreid pfm Member

    Indeed! I meant that they'll need to look critically at the structural integrity, it was already affected badly by air pollution, but whether the foundations are sufficient to hold up a weakened structure... They had quite a task to construct the metro stations on the banks of the Seine.
  3. eisenach

    eisenach Thüringen

    France Info said an hour ago or so that first impressions from an interior inspection are that :

    - the vaulting (mostly?) held, a tribute to the builders.
    - the great rose window seems mostly intact but very fragile and vulnerable and will need securing rapidly
    - the Cavaillé Col organ didn't burn but is severely water damaged.

    Just first impressions and I've not heard any of that confirmed recently.
    Rug Doc, jackbarron and Weekender like this.
  4. eisenach

    eisenach Thüringen

    Update just now:
    The falling spire took some of the vaulting out, but the rest is intact.
    The transcepts / crossing are in part gone.
    The northern rose is intact so far.

    No mention of the organ there.
  5. richgilb

    richgilb Admonishtrator

    I heard on R4 that the organ is not destroyed. Always useful to have your organ intact.
  6. eisenach

    eisenach Thüringen

  7. eisenach

    eisenach Thüringen

    Good news:

    LA NEWSLETTER ACTUNous la préparons pour vous chaque matin
    [​IMG] il y a 20 minutes
    Incendie à Notre-Dame de Paris : "Le grand orgue, a priori, est sauvé"

    "C'est un miracle !" L'organiste titulaire du grand orgue de la cathédrale Notre-Dame de Paris, ravagée par un violent incendie, annonce qu'"aux dernières nouvelles, a priori [l'instrument] est sauvé". Vincent Dubois raconte, mardi 16 avril sur franceinfo, avoir, "toute la nuit, croisé les doigts pour que les clés de voûte ne tombent pas" sur le grand orgue. "Dans l'immédiat, ce qu'il faudrait faire, c'est démonter l'instrument et le préserver jusqu'à ce que le toit et la voûte soient consolidés", estime le musicien.

    >> Incendie à Notre-Dame de Paris : suivez notre direct

    Maintenant, il faut être prudent pour la suite parce que la structure même de la cathédrale va devenir instable : une fois que tout va sécher, on ne sait pas comment les joints des clés de voûte vont travailler.Vincent Duboisà franceinfo

    Parmi les trois orgues de Notre-Dame, le grand orgue, avec ses cinq claviers, ses 109 jeux et ses près de 8 000 tuyaux, est le plus remarquable. "Quand un de mes collègues m'a appelé pour me dire que Notre-Dame était en feu, je n'y croyais pas, c'est un cauchemar réel et quelque chose que je n'aurais jamais imaginé voir", a témoigné l'organiste.

    Le grand orgue est "un instrument qui, depuis presque six siècles, a vu passer presque tous les plus grands facteurs d'orgues les uns après les autres, et ils ont apporté chacun leur génie à cet instrument" pour aboutir à une "synthèse exceptionnelle", a poursuivi Vincent Dubois. "Le son de l'instrument résonnant dans une acoustique particulièrement exceptionnelle
    L'orgue de la cathédrale Notre-Dame de Paris compte avec cinq claviers, 109 jeux et près de 8 000 tuyaux. (STEPHANE DE SAKUTIN / AFP)

    Basically, it seems ok. It will need dismantling, storing and restoring.
    jackbarron and twotone like this.
  8. Bob McC

    Bob McC Living the life of Riley

    From somewhere else.

    I have a hunch it’ll be back in the end...
    Sue Pertwee-Tyr, Weekender and Gaycha like this.
  9. Gaycha

    Gaycha Well-Known Member

    They are more adept at putting their hands in other people's pockets.
    Mr Cat and Tony Lockhart like this.
  10. Gaycha

    Gaycha Well-Known Member

    Macro s EU mates are having a whip around:

    <<Parliament President Antonio Tajani called on the 751 members to donate their day's salary. Speaking in French, he said: "As a former resident of Paris, as an Italian, as a European, my heart is wounded, as are all of our hearts, by what happened yesterday in Paris." >>

    I wonder how many will actually do this.

    It is a good thing to see EU solidarity on this tho. Junckers must have sobered up fast last night:


    One can imagine many discontented austerity-bound French citizens who have been pushing back at Macron, may raise an eyebrow at how easily and quickly $300m can appear for a good cause.
  11. eisenach

    eisenach Thüringen

    Reims was badly damaged by shelling in the First World War. It was rebuilt/repaired, largely with american money (Rockefellers) and re-dedicated in 1938, just in time for part 2.
    Like ND de Paris, the roof had gone. The wooden frame was rebuilt, using re-inforced concrete beams. Thanks to the war, France had become an expert in using the material. You can visit the roof space and see the forest of concrete beams and imagine what it must once have been like. I took a school group up there a few years ago. The vaulting from above looks most odd.

    Back to Paris, they've just said on Info that, as the vaulting in particular, dries out, the whole thing risks becoming unstable. Fingers crossed for the organ and the rose windows.
    PsB, twotone and TheDecameron like this.
  12. Copperjacket

    Copperjacket pfm Member

    If in the early 1900's William Walker could prop up the foundations of Winchester Cathedral, it is hard to believe that a century later, a solution cant be found to do a similar job here.

    I do hope this Cathedral is rebuilt in a traditional way, as we did with York Minster, rather than succumbing to the temptation of a modern re-interpretation e.g. Glass (I.M. Pei, at the Louvre) or Concrete ( Le Corbusier at Notre Dame du Haut).
  13. Gaycha

    Gaycha Well-Known Member

    Reims is an amazing edifice. We visited a few years back when on way to Epernay. Impressive.
  14. gavreid

    gavreid pfm Member

    I'm no expert but it might be a matter of how quickly it can be stabilised if it starts to crack significantly.
  15. Rockmeister

    Rockmeister pfm Member

    Religious or not, that was an awe inspiring space, and the craftsmanship of each inch was a tribute to the thousands of men and women who worked for hundreds of years to create it. It's well known as one of world's premier Gothic Art masterpieces, both as a complete structure, and in every inner detail.
    I have been more times than I can remember...mostly taking Art and History students on school trips. The effect was always the same, whoever they were, or whatever their background, it was simply awe inspiring.
    Then of course there is it'splace as a national symbol and landmark to equal St Paul's in London and then there is the religious nature of the place. However you view it, this is a significant day for most of us and very very sad.
    As to rebuilding, it will certainly be possible...why not? In time, a replica could stand there, but for me, it will never be the same. Age matters, and the hand of the original craftsmen will have gone. One could reproduce the Mona Lisa...there are probably 10 artists alive today who could make a copy so perfect that only a dozen world experts could discern it, but? I'm almost with those who say replace it with something new. In fact as I write it looks like enough of the structure stands for it to be restored (and the French will do this. I have no doubt on that) but I'm not sure it's right to do. Not because I want a modern eddifice in it's place, (and especially not a clever or dramatic modern piece), but because, it's gone. My vote would be to secure the shell. restore all the removeable statues, the glass, the organ and everything that was so beautifully crafted, and simply make the simplest, most elegant new internal structure possible, looking back to the basics on Gothic thinking...height and light. It won't happen, but that's what I'd like to do.
    twotone, lagavullin10y and Mr Cat like this.
  16. eisenach

    eisenach Thüringen

    Gaycha likes this.
  17. eisenach

    eisenach Thüringen

  18. Gaycha

    Gaycha Well-Known Member

    They are indeed. And recent too (relatively). I didn't realise they were only added in 1974.

    I guess we sort of forget that these buildings have evolved over hundreds of years, adding eclecticism during various restoration and development periods. They are not always the 'snapshots' we may think they are.
  19. DonQuixote99

    DonQuixote99 pfm Member

    Little government cost participation at any level up to now, for any of the major old cathedrals, or any other church. France has anti-clericism baked into its constitution.
  20. Stunsworth

    Stunsworth pfm Member

    With all four walls and towers standing I’d expect a restoration rather than a reimagining. I’m guessing the first thing that needs to be done is stabilising what’s left standing.

    Good news about the organ.

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