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Oh Britain, what have you done (part ∞+13)?

Discussion in 'off topic' started by Bob McC, Jan 1, 2019.

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  1. MichaelC

    MichaelC pfm Member

    Jeez. What a mess.

    May's proposed Brexit deal looks to be the worst of both worlds.

    Given a small majority voted for Brexit, and given the potential outcome is either the acceptance of May's proposed deal (highly unlikely) or no deal on exit, I wonder what those voted for Brexit think of this now? Surely in the interests of the country as a whole the Article 50 date should be delayed until such time that a meaningful referendum is held (remain or Brexit, and if you tick Brexit: May's proposed deal or no deal). Surely that is fair?
    jackbarron and TheDecameron like this.
  2. Still

    Still he said his naim was ralph

    Reservoir Cocks

    twotone, jackbarron, Darmok and 2 others like this.
  3. stephen bennett

    stephen bennett Mr Enigma

    IDS (?) at the back left really looks like an old time east end gangster in there.

    TheDecameron and Still like this.
  4. NeilR

    NeilR pfm Member

    In case anybody has forgotten, this is what one of these fine gentlemen said in 2016:

    Why would anybody now listen to a word they have to say?
    PsB, twotone, jackbarron and 6 others like this.
  5. ff1d1l

    ff1d1l pfm Member

    Well, you're wrong.
    And wrong. Better chance now than ever.
  6. ste

    ste Active Member

    I didn't think the Establishment would allow Brexit, but no one is quite in control of things. I do agree that the Establishment won't stomach no deal. But, as I said in 1755, May's deal is not dead, as some assume, and in lightly tweaked form it will ensure that no deal doesn't happen. May 's biggest challenge is actually to keep the DUP on board now and post-March, not Corbyn, the people's vote tendency or the Rees-Mogg camp.
    I think, re. no deal, you have to recall the old logic of nuclear deterrence. The no deal threat is May's lethal weapon (hence her refusal to rule it out) but while she won't use it, she has to convince enemies and friends alike that she could.
    Then as now, you can never quite discount the possibility of an accident. Interesting times...
  7. ff1d1l

    ff1d1l pfm Member

    This is very true.

    So to clarify, when I said earlier that I wished she'd **** off, I of course meant with all the brexit shite in her party. And if Corbyn wants to **** off too with his party's Gammonreich, better still.
  8. sean99

    sean99 pfm Member

    I have come around to this way of thinking. I think May knows that eventually parliament will be forced to approve her deal, perhaps slightly tweaked, when the only alternative is no-deal and the date is late March. May's method of "seeking consensus" is to hold a gun to everyones' heads. Faced with the prospect of no deal most of the not-clinically-insane Tories will vote for May's deal, and enough Labour MPs will be peeled from JC's suicide pact to carry it.
  9. Mullardman

    Mullardman Moderately extreme...

    I won't feign ignorance if you don't... But I'm mystified as to how I'm supposed to grasp which particular 'greater truth' you are referring to in your verbose, yet nebulous/cryptic style.

    But whatever, if your analysis ofthe motivations of French protesters is anywhere close, then they too are being manipulated by the right into blaming the EU for the failings of their own Govt. Sound familiar?

    Like many others here, you erroneously equate my views with my personal circumstances. I'm fine and I'm going nowhere. Sadly, neither are the millions already suffering under the heel of this benighted Govt
    ., who will soon be suffering more.

    I suspect you mean the vote to leave the EU. and yes, you are entirely correct in identifying the motivations of many 'leave' voters. Where you, like they, fall down, is in ascribing all of the blame for their troubles to the EU.

    Still.. maybe they'll learn.. when it's too late.
    PsB and TheDecameron like this.
  10. ff1d1l

    ff1d1l pfm Member

    The electorate were illegally manipulated. The ref has no democratic legitimacy.
  11. JonR

    JonR Brainwashed Bloke

    I agree with the above assessment, though to me, 'no deal' seems the likeliest outcome. It's hard to see what kind of deal could convince enough Tories to support it without splitting the party asunder permanently, whilst getting enough Labour rebels on board at the same time. At the very least May would have to compromise her so-called 'red lines', and she has shown absolutely no inclination to do this despite the scale of her defeat on Tuesday.

    Corbyn professed he would only talk to May on the condition she'd drop 'new deal', but that's the one condition he knew she would never agree to.

    Never really struck me as consensus-style politician, has Jezza.

    Btw, on the question of a second referendum, should it ever come to pass, then FWIW I think the minimum voting age should be reduced to 16, and the result should be determined by two thirds majority.
  12. eternumviti

    eternumviti Bloviating Brexiter

    Careful what you say, there's some trained killers in amongst that lot. DD is ex-Artist's Rifles (21st SAS), and the short, portly killer with the scowl next to Steve Baker (ex RAF erk) is wearing a Black Watch tie.
  13. Still

    Still he said his naim was ralph

    Nadine and eternumviti sitting in a tree ...


    He Who Dares (occasional weekends only) Resigns Sharpish
    PsB, Nick_G, sean99 and 1 other person like this.
  14. eternumviti

    eternumviti Bloviating Brexiter

    Yes, it does, very, and it's no less facile upon constant repetition.

    Sure, successive French socialist governments have much to answer for, but so too does the EU, because its trophy policy, EMU, has had a disastrous effect on the economy.

    I don't ascribe all of the blame for their troubles on the EU, and never have done, but the EU represents, like Westminster but in every way much more so, remote, distant, unreachable, unresponsive, uncaring government.

    Still, as you say, they'll learn. Let them eat cake. Or turnips, whatever.
  15. TheDecameron

    TheDecameron Unicorns fart glitter.

    Brexit is foreground and all consuming. Rudd even managed to sneak out the DWP announcement, slashing pension credits for some couples by £7k pa the night before the vote on May’s deal this week.
  16. TheDecameron

    TheDecameron Unicorns fart glitter.

    Has Nadine ‘been there’ do you think? Or maybe she sees herself as the Party’s Queen of Survival Skills following her appearance with Ant n Dec.
    Still likes this.
  17. Still

    Still he said his naim was ralph

    With DD or eternumviti?
    TheDecameron likes this.
  18. TheDecameron

    TheDecameron Unicorns fart glitter.

    Projection is the psychological phenomenon where someone denies some aspect of their behavior or attitudes and assumes instead that others are doing or thinking so. It is usually seen as the externalisation of a person's negative traits, placing blame on an outside force such as the environment, a government, a society or other people.

    EV, I’m afraid you’ve been caught so many times affecting ignorance here, I’ve now lost count.
    Still and Mullardman like this.
  19. bernardhepworth

    bernardhepworth pfm Member

    I don't think there will be no deal.

    The Tories business friends won't stand for it.

    I read somewhere today there will be some sort of customs union, but it won't called that. Businesses have got plans in place on how they will manage a May type exit, as Carney mentioned yesterday, dropping out our existing arrangements can be managed but it will put costs up, somewhere between 5-10% on good coming in. I know of one very large producer, with most of the production outside of the UK who say it's all sorted in terms of how they operate but the cost is an additional 10% which they will pass on to whoever they can.
  20. Mullardman

    Mullardman Moderately extreme...

    Just the socialists then...

    Maybe not.. but according to you THEY do.. in which case they are just as wrong as most UK Brexit fantasists.

    Would that be the same remote,distant, unreachable, unresponsive, uncaring govt. that funded so many projects to regenerate those same areas of deprivation caused by Tory policy, and which yet were still duped by Tories into voting against the very EU which funded regeneration efforts and supported their human, employment and environmental rights? The same EU which did what any responsible home Govt should have done.. ?

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