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Oh Britain, what have you done (part ∞+13)?

Discussion in 'off topic' started by Bob McC, Jan 1, 2019.

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  1. TheDecameron

    TheDecameron Unicorns fart glitter.

    You’re describing the ideal cv for QT, Newsnight and Victoria Derbyshire appearances for when Oakshott is called to do Fox News/ Breitbart/ otherwise engaged.
  2. ff1d1l

    ff1d1l pfm Member

    twotone likes this.
  3. TheDecameron

    TheDecameron Unicorns fart glitter.

    I enjoy a good off the shelf/ out of a UKIP-EDL pamphlet ism. You can construct entire posts out of them that fool the reader for 30 seconds into believing there’s some kind of learning behind them
  4. TheDecameron

    TheDecameron Unicorns fart glitter.

    These rhetorical devices normally reside with-
    End of
    Job done
    As is
    Bang out of order
    There’s too many comin over ‘ere
    XXXX means XXXX
  5. rbrown

    rbrown I think therefore I think I am

    She won Stonewall's much coveted Bigot of the Year award in 2011!
  6. Seanm

    Seanm pfm Member

    I guess I'm a glass half full person. Labour didn't win in 2017 but they reversed the fortunes of the party and shifted the centre ground to the left by a remarkable degree over the course of a few weeks, and it's not going back. The idea that the British public won't accept left wing policies has been dealt a death blow, frankly, and I strongly suspect it was always a tabloid construct. I don't think history is going to be kind to the Labour "modernisers" of the '80s and '90s who used that idea to justify their capitulation to Thatcherism.

    Anyway what we really need to be realistic about is the EU, or rather the relationship between the EU and the nation states that make it up. It's not a case of saying UK good EU bad or vice versa, but of looking at the ways various political forces in both have made use of each other. Right wingers in the UK shifted the EU right and then used the EU to shift the UK further right. And while there might have been a time when the EU prioritised social progressivism and pulled some countries up in terms of labour laws and so on, that time has passed. It was always primarily about market harmonisation, and now the market requires something quite different, which is that domestic labour laws submit to its logic, and above all to the freedom of capital. I think we should probably remain, by the way, if that can be finessed - but mostly because I think they'll find it harder to ____ over a Corbyn government if we're inside rather than outside.

    Which doesn't make for a great campaign slogan.

    gavreid, andrewd and Darmok like this.
  7. The Far North

    The Far North pfm Member

    I've just read her entry on Wikipedia, and I'm guessing she didn't write much of it herself. :rolleyes: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melanie_Phillips
  8. TheDecameron

    TheDecameron Unicorns fart glitter.

    She is, what you might justifiably describe as an extremist. Her ‘personality difficulties’ (as with Katie Hopkins) contort everything she says- she just has a better command of English than Hopkins. Her content deserves to remain self-published, I don’t understand why the state broadcaster should provide her with airtime, then again they’ve had Tommy Robinson and Nick Griffin broadcasting to the nation.
  9. The Far North

    The Far North pfm Member

    Maybe the section on her Views is worth an update Dec? Of course it would need to be done by someone who has the time and knowledge to do such a thing, which certainly rules me out. ;)
  10. Jim Audiomisc

    Jim Audiomisc pfm Member

    Seeing that on the C4 news was particularly interesting because I'd happened by chance to see Corbyn's speech earlier that day via the BBC News channel.

    The speech only lasted about 15mins (started at about 11:15 if anyone wants to check it out in full) and I thought it a fairly clear summary and argument of Corbyn/Labour's POV and policy. They then took questions. This gave the impression that the person selecting who was to ask questions was 'overlooking' Jon Snow. But in the end he'd made a slight fuss and they let him get the final question.

    This was the *only* part of the speech/questions I saw on the C4 News 'yoof debate', and so far as I know, no-one at that debate had been shown what Corbyn had said in full.

    So it looked to me like 'cherry picking out of context' as it certainly didn't represent his main speech.

    The C4 'debate' seemed just like a multi-person version of the old fake 'balance' interviews loved by lazy journalists. i.e. get on people with a range of 'views' and let them play debating games, point score, bicker, etc. As if this was a satisfactory substitute for *informed* discussion based on outlining the relevant background facts.

    i.e. par for the course for much of the time on TV.

    Until this. I'd thought better of the C4 team and Jon Snow.

    After the 'debate' I wondered if the people at the speech were trying to not let him ask a question because they guessed he'd use it as a way to ignore the actual speech when 'reporting'. But maybe the C4 News did report it properly before and outwith the 'debate'. (?)
  11. TheDecameron

    TheDecameron Unicorns fart glitter.

    Treeza’s No.10 cheese and wine (with partners) evenings seem to be working*. BBC R4 have a Tory MP George Freeman, who has had a blinding flash of insight and is now voting for May’s deal after publicly calling for her head only a week ago.


    “The Government can ill afford to lose a brain like George Freeman's”

    *who knows what trinkets were promised to George on the way out the door?
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2019
  12. eternumviti

    eternumviti pfm Member

    Interesting post, well articulated. You and I might have different starting points and different destinations, but we certainly seem to cross over in the middle somewhere.
  13. Frankiesays

    Frankiesays Rats is life.

    I wasn't aware of the Idenitarian movement, I meant identity politics from both left and right, may'be you were just being pedantic.
  14. jackbarron

    jackbarron Chelsea, London

    You might be right. I was surprised how few yoofs put up their hands when asked if they supported Corbyn. I interpreted that as in general, rather than the quote. What also surprised me is some still support May and her plan, given the chaos she and it have caused.

    The first to answer during the debate was someone who was an out and out Tory. The third or so was a woman who has stood as a Tory candidate. I didn't think she was between 18 and 20, nor the bloke from Guido Fawkes a couple of seats along.

    The general impression was most didn't know what Brexit means, which isn't surprising because nobody does at the moment. Also the majority were, I think, in favour of a second vote.

  15. Frankiesays

    Frankiesays Rats is life.

    Well its usually far right groups that face bans as their views can admittedly be unpalatable. But the left should know better than to call for bans on speech. Some of them have had a taste of their own medicine recently as seen in the trans/feminist clashes, with trans activists calling for certain feminists to have their speech curtailed, in whatever way, be it refusing to take part in a debate with them or asking for them to be unselected to speak at a certain debate, as Germaine Greer was a few years back, they even have a name for them, 'TERFS', google it. Add to that the constant social media feeds, and the danger inherent in speaking ones mind, with real world consequences like losing ones job for airing quaint points of view, such as the scientist Tim Hunt, google him as well if you like. Things have started to turn lately though, what with the Labour anti semitism row, the left are now facing their own censorious ways, which is very satisfying.
  16. Frankiesays

    Frankiesays Rats is life.

    She writes a weekly column in The Times. Nice to hear some common sense these days. Oh hang on common sense is almost as meaningless a term as 'extremist'.
  17. sean99

    sean99 pfm Member

    Common sense IS a meaningless term. It's the term reached for by those who cannot dream up a more reasoned explanation / justification. Just because a belief or practice is common does not mean that the belief or practice is either founded in reason or undeserving of scrutiny. That's why we no longer have witch trials.
    Mullardman likes this.
  18. Barrymagrec

    Barrymagrec pfm Member

    Or his fabulous Grill.
  19. TheDecameron

    TheDecameron Unicorns fart glitter.

    Hunt and others are out telling MPs and the public, it’s May’s s1t deal or catastrophe ( long gone is the ‘no deal is better than a sh1t deal like this’). “The public expects nothing less from us”. Actually what I expect is the least damaging and most advantageous deal- while which ever government comes in- can fix the huge economic and social problems made entirely in Britain. What Hunt is doing amounts to nothing more than a threat to harm the country if his government don’t get their way.
    Mullardman likes this.
  20. droodzilla

    droodzilla pfm Member

    Excellent speech from Caroline Lucas today:

    It certainly beats calling Leave voters "thick racists" and gives me hope that some people committed to Remain have learned the lessons of the referendum vote.

    Of course, Lucas wants to reverse the vote, but her core message (that there needs to be fundamental change, even if we stay in the EU) is not so different from Corbyn's yesterday (another excellent speech). In contrast, it's obvious that many of Lucas' fellow travellers (Soubry, Umunna, the Lib-Dems) simply don't get this. God help us if they prevail and we remain in the EU, while everything else stays the same.
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2019
    Sue Pertwee-Tyr and jackbarron like this.
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