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Oh Britain, what have you done (part ∞+24)?

Discussion in 'off topic' started by eternumviti, Jul 23, 2019.

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  1. Seeker_UK

    Seeker_UK Waiting for the streetcar..


  2. TheDecameron

    TheDecameron Unicorns fart glitter.

    Sticking it to the man can be expensive. Who knew?
  3. Arkless Electronics

    Arkless Electronics Trade: Amp design and repairs.

    That some of the most Brexity areas are also the most impoverished I don't dispute.... I reckon there are other reasons though. To generalise hugely, people in the poorest areas tend to be less educated, less travelled and have had less exposure to other peoples and cultures and this may go a long way to explaining the more xenophobic attitudes of these areas.

    It would take considerable stupidity or a very short memory to fail to see who shut down the mines and steelworks though... and who is the friend of the bankers, bosses, landlords and spivs that are causing the wealth inequality.
    ff1d1l and MartinC like this.
  4. lordsummit

    lordsummit Moderator

    Still likes this.
  5. Still

    Still he said his naim was ralph

    Genius! Stopping Brexit with Brexit.
    TheDecameron likes this.
  6. Sue Pertwee-Tyr

    Sue Pertwee-Tyr pfm Member

  7. Seeker_UK

    Seeker_UK Waiting for the streetcar..

    I get that but, given there is apparently no real difference between Tory and New Labour, then really many of the leave areas have been b**-f**ked by political parties and understandable that there is no trust in politicians, full stop. And that is regardless of who's leading or what they promise.
  8. Tony L

    Tony L Administrator

    The thing which astonishes me is the extent to which these areas have fallen for the obvious lies and deception of Farage, Banks etc. Millionaire disaster capitalists who are clearly in it to make huge amounts of money out of shorting the UK as they flush it down the economic toilet. A highly privileged wealthy public school elite who have actually got away with a ‘man of the people’ charade worse than that fake Cockney bloke from Mary Poppins whilst selling a smokescreen of division and racism as they dismantle the country for their own benefit. I don’t understand how anyone can have been dumb enough not to see Farage for the obvious conman he is.
  9. Seeker_UK

    Seeker_UK Waiting for the streetcar..

    Basically, he understood his audience and what levers to pull. Present in a 'blokey bloke' package, point the blame squarely at "them" (elites, immigrants, faceless EU bureaucrats) offer simple solutions, a return back to when stuff was better (real or imagined), blame "them" for why you can't have that return.

    Blaming "them" is easier than explaining complex socio-economic and global financial theories. Getting out of Europe is clearly a quicker fix than the multi-generational, long haul that's needed to adapt communities to the unsettling changing world.

    Doesn't matter if he's a spiv, you'll conveniently ignore that if he's saying something confirming what you already sort of suspected and a simple answer to make your s**t life (or what you think is a s**t life or what you think is leading to a s**t life in the future) a little less s**t.
    stephen bennett likes this.
  10. tonerei

    tonerei pfm Member

    He mouths out what they believe and want to shout from the roof tops. He is a hero to them.

    Blowjob is out today accusing anybody trying to stop no deal as a collaborator with the EU. This guy publicly stoops very low. Dangerous stuff but the world is so sanitized by fake news BJ can get away with saying anything just like Trump.
    Heard a Trump one today on the radio. He is slagging off windmills whilst speaking to gas industry workers. Comical but like the Brexiteers believing all the drivel it is just the way the world behaves today.
  11. eisenach

    eisenach European

    Well, I just have the feeling that he might be bonkers enough to try it:

    "In a tweet, Tugendhat asked:

    Tom Tugendhat (@TomTugendhat)
    What odds would you give on:
    1 UK exits EU by 24 Aug - in time for G7 or before Parliament returns. Art 50 passed so nothing to stop unilateral withdrawal.
    2 General Election straight after to get majority.
    3 Answer Irish border Q with NI only referendum on NI only backstop?

    August 14, 2019
    In response to tweeted questions about the repeated objections by the Democratic Unionist party to any regulatory provision that applied only to Northern Ireland, Tugendhat argued that a Johnson government could ignore this if it won a majority in the subsequent election, and that a referendum would give the idea credibility.
    Such a plan, particularly the idea of unilateral withdrawal without any warning followed by an immediate election, would seem hugely politically risky, and could prompt a furious reaction from MPs, businesses and many members of the public.
    However, No 10 is known to be concerned that the Commons could find a way to block Johnson’s much-promised departure by 31 October if it involved leaving the EU without a deal, whether through taking control of the parliamentary order paper or means such as a no-confidence vote in the government.
    Steve Peers, a professor of EU law at the University of Essex, said he did not think such a plan was feasible. While changing the date of withdrawal could be done via so-called secondary legislation, not voted on by MPs, he tweeted, the EU Withdrawal Act states it must happen “in accordance with article 50(3) of the Treaty on European Union”, which sets out the EU’s constitutional basis.
    Section 50(3) of the treaty says an extension to the standard two-year wait for departure under article 50 can only take place if “the European council, in agreement with the member state concerned, unanimously decides to extend this period”. This indicated any change of date would need agreement, he said."
  12. eternumviti

    eternumviti pfm Member

    Oh, come on now, please.

    Ireland's GDP figures are massively distorted by Intellectual Property transfers brought in by the the multinationals who have been attracted by the Republic's low corporation tax rates. By various other measurements such as GNP and Net National Income, which either partially or completely strip out those distortions, the Republic is doing well, but not much better or worse than other EU countries. Employment is reaching pre-crisis levels, but not there yet, and wages are only just beginning to move upwards. People don't 'feel' richer. There is a serious crisis in the health system, and serious housing shortages. 16% of the country's tax receipts are from Corporation tax, and nearly half of that comes from just 10, mainly American, multinationals. Any changes in the US or in the EU tax regimes could massively impact this overreliance.

    By other measurements too, Ireland looks decidely fragile. Her government debt looks OK when viewed as a % of GDP, but, taking the above distortions into account and viewed as a measure of GNP, it is pretty dire at around 110%. Even taking a median view, that still equates to a higher debt per capita than Belgium, France, Italy, Greece or Spain, and of course, as Colin pointed out, an absurdly high percentage of the tax take goes on interest against the ECB bailout loans.

    The Republic's 'smart' exploitation of EU membership has mainly been to the benefit of multinational corporations, career federalist diplomats, politicians and large landowners. Take growth, which averaged out at 4.4% in the decade leading up to EC membership in 1972, and fell to 4.1% in the period 72-79, and to 1.5% in the period 79-86, 'the lost decade'. GNP figures follow the same pattern, as did Gross Disposable Incomes, which fell to 1.2% growth in the latter period. Until 2014 Ireland was a net beneficiary of the EU, mainly due to the CAP, but also to regional funds. Since 2014 the country has been a net contributor, so, like the UK, and cash that comes back from Brussels is essentially Irish taxpayer's cash minus.

    When Ireland, or more accurately, the Irish people, were hoodwinked into the Euro in 1999, there was full employment, a bouyant economy, and net immigration, a result of the 'Celtic Tiger' boom in which the Punt had been devalued against the currencies of its two most important markets, the US and the UK. Within a dozen years of joining the Euro the country was insolvent, with nearly 15% unemployment and people flooding out of the country, largely as result of a falsely low interest rates imposed to suit Germany and The Low Countries, causing a property boom, bubble, and inevitably, burst. The government had guaranteed the debt of the Irish banks in 2008, and the ultimate consequence was the troika bailout, forced austerity and effective subordination of governance to the EC/ECB/IMF, with interest rates jacked from 1% under the ECB in 2008 to 5% under the 'EU Stability Bailout Fund' 2 years later. In short, Ireland became a victim of being unable to be in control of its own interest and foreign exchange rates when its economy became countercyclical with its main markets, of its inablity to let its banks fall, and of the EU's grim-faced determination to prevent the Euro from collapsing. In the 4 years following 2007, Ireland lost 10% of its GDP and nearly 15% of GNP, and 200,000 people emigrated. So much for the benign and charitable EU which then, as it will again around the corner, acted to protect not it's member countries, their people and their economies, but 'the project'.

    And so it goes on. We could discuss the impact of EU membership on Irish sovereignty, since the foundation of The Rebublic, incumbent not upon the state but the people, and artfully diluted by the Europhile government in order to force through the Lisbon Treaty, or of EU membership upon the Irish fishing industry, the loss of which possibly exceeds all of the net cash that the country has recieved from the EEC/EU since 1972.

    The EU will protect its smaller states, one way or another. Will it hell.

  13. eternumviti

    eternumviti pfm Member

    The word that really cracked me up amongst all of those was 'tolerant'. You've gotta love it. Nice one Arkless.
  14. TheDecameron

    TheDecameron Unicorns fart glitter.

    ^ translates as “don’t worry, we can cripple Ireland “.
  15. tonerei

    tonerei pfm Member

    Bit like a bojo news article. Full of bojoism's i.e loose connection with truth and reality.
    Curious has any society or democracy moved you in a positive way?

  16. eternumviti

    eternumviti pfm Member

    No, it doesn't. It translates as something along the lines of Leo is looking a lot like a witless Europhile who really needs to withdraw his nose from the crack of Jean-Claude's backside and aquire some cognitive nous before he cripples Ireland.
  17. stevec67

    stevec67 pfm Member

    Where do you get all this? Who makes it up? Nobody believes it in Ireland.
  18. eternumviti

    eternumviti pfm Member

    I wouldn't be here right now if that wasn't pretty much precisely what moves me.

    What moves you? We can clearly discount democracy.
  19. TheDecameron

    TheDecameron Unicorns fart glitter.

    I think that’s perhaps your frankest expression of blackmail yet. The condescension and the implicit threat of retaliation if Ireland doesn’t side with Tory England. Ain’t going to happen. Behind Ireland the EU, the U.S House of Representatives and a massive pro-Ireland lobby in America.
    jackbarron likes this.
  20. eternumviti

    eternumviti pfm Member

    Nothing to do with retaliation. If the EU continues to obstruct the commencement of trade negotiations everyone is going to take a hit, but no country more so than Ireland.
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