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ONIX RENOVATION ..Some facts ..not all things are equal.. Pictures dont lie

Discussion in 'trade discussion' started by Onixdna, Apr 16, 2019.

  1. Onixdna

    Onixdna Onix GB

    Our previous post of renovation has met with great response .. I for one look forward to a nostalgic few weeks of seeing our old stuff back after 30 years .. Stuff I made when I was young and seeing how it stood up to use.. Did how we design it then, actually work to last as we designed it too ?

    However for the die hard unbelivers that all things are equal .. Caps are all about spec, joes repair shop can do the same job for less , this is an example of what we do over and above listening to components .

    Spec mean NOTHING, I will stand by that to the end of time

    From WIKI

    Most capacitors contain at least two electrical conductors often in the form of metallic plates or surfaces separated by a dielectric medium. A conductor may be a foil, or an electrolyte. The nonconducting dielectric acts to increase the capacitor's charge capacity. Materials commonly used as dielectrics include glass, ceramic, plastic film, paper, mica, air, and oxide layers. Capacitors are widely used as parts of electrical circuits in many common electrical devices. Unlike a resistor, an ideal capacitor does not dissipate energy.

    One Example of capacitors :-

    Some pictures of an identical spec sheet capacitor from 2 different makers . A 10000uf Electrolitic made in China by Unknown and a 10000 uf Electrolitic made in Japan by Nichicon. Both exactly the same pysical size. One was half price and had higher spec of 63v, versus 50V for the nichicon at twice the cost. Everything else identical .

    Note the Nichicon had a 200 MM longer length in both foil, electroltic paper and fluid ,and is rated the same capacitance but lower voltage .. Even with different materials, physical size has a role . The Chinese one was not so wet either and had less eletrolite and foil. Both were rated at +/- 20% . Who might want to save a few hundreths of a cent using the - 20% to sell under spec parts by cutting on foil and electrolyte ?

    Guess which one sounds better ? ..BY A HUGE MARGIN.. and which one did not meet spec .

    It is really this bad these days, remember I am a customer too .

    Check out the pics


  2. david ellwood

    david ellwood Kirabosi Kognoscente

    Capacitor Vmax is related to plate size
  3. Onixdna

    Onixdna Onix GB

    Agreed note the physical size
  4. James Evans

    James Evans Bedroom Bodger

    The 10000uf 63v cap in the gallery there is Cornell Dubilier. Not exactly "unknown". Widely available from farnell, rs, etc.
  5. Onixdna

    Onixdna Onix GB

    Irespective it was cheaper it was supplied as 10000uf and measured 7260 uf , unlike the nichicon that ws 9600 uf and was twice the price

    The point of the post is ...The spec sheet is worthless, Exactly my point

    Since surface mount took a grip, traditional components have liitle interest to companies making them and are sadly neglected , so most have been cost cutted to extreme.

    This is the only way to get what you want by literally ripping stuff apart and doing your own tests , buying the spec sheet is pointless even on cost .
  6. James Evans

    James Evans Bedroom Bodger

    Which Nichicon range was it out of interest? LS?

    I'm not disputing any measurements, but when a hobbyist like me (possibly too anal for my own good), knows at a glance the brand of a cap that a manufacturer is highlighting as "unknown" then it leads me to question things.
  7. Onixdna

    Onixdna Onix GB

    James if you want to E mail me I will gladly give you as much as we have about stuff we have tested .. Lets put it in perspective .. The DNA 50 was tested with over 35 brands of smoothing capacitor in the power supply and was part of over 80 prototype transformers . We have a habit of not really caring about brands so much as results these days .

    I have records for all, but it really is scary how bad things are . If you want specifics I will gladly provide them .. This post is to prove a point not a reason or disaprove a brand .

    E mail as you wish

    Adam W
  8. James Evans

    James Evans Bedroom Bodger

    My point really is that if you're going to put something in the public domain make sure it's factually correct and backup any claims with actual evidence. Link to datasheets, show photos of measurements, highlight and explain discrepancies in the specs. Back claims up thoroughly basically. I know it takes time to do that, but it's important I think.
  9. Onixdna

    Onixdna Onix GB

    Pictures say it all forget the brand ..one is not as good as the other ..simple

    My point is spec is worthless ..it seems for you its everything , entirely missing my point
  10. James Evans

    James Evans Bedroom Bodger

    I'm well aware not all components are made equal, having cap swapped in different amps/builds to the point of near insanity :). I actually really don't care either way tbh, I'm just saying back things up thoroughly. If you're saying on a public forum that one cap measures X then show a photo of the cap meter as well. I'd be expected to do the same at work...

    I have massive fondness for Onix amps btw, I have an OA21 staring at me right now!

    Woke up at 3.30am and couldn't get back to sleep, so maybe I'm being overly belligerent today ;)
  11. Onixdna

    Onixdna Onix GB

    All good ..I just hate the lies on spec sheets

    Adam W

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