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Overhaul 12" tannoy monitor gold's.

Discussion in 'd.i.y.' started by Jhon, Aug 27, 2019.

  1. cooky1257

    cooky1257 pfm Member

    That's my thinking too then factor in the horn resonance peak at 3khz...the broad hump may be ameliorated somewhat by inverting HF polarity to 'exploit' a phase cancellation but tbh given the rarity of Silver xovers, the now unobtainium nature of replacement HF dias what's the point? I remember my eager anticipation of getting to hear some Reds years ago and was taken aback by the R3 sound of applause through them-basically frozen peas down a drainpipe-that's the un-notched honk right there, though I didn't know at the time.
     
    ToTo Man likes this.
  2. Tony L

    Tony L Administrator

    12” & 15” Gold have a 1kHz crossover, though the 10” 3LZ is higher up, can’t remember what though. Makes sense as the smaller driver will be good to a higher freq.
     
  3. cooky1257

    cooky1257 pfm Member

    Never say never with vintage gear, if it works for you then that's what's important.
    JBL 4350 has drivers spread all over its baffle-it shouldn't sound good-they sound absolutely incredible(to quote GT " no one told the 4350 it shouldn't sound good").
     
  4. ToTo Man

    ToTo Man the band not the dog

    Having never heard a Silver or Red, to me it would be interesting to compare the Silver XO vs Red XO vs Gold XO using digital EQ* on the Silver and Red XOs to ameliorate the respective peaks from LF/HF overlap and the 3kHz honk, to see which XO comes out on top in terms of coherence, musicality and transparency. I'm aware there are those who'd suggest aftermarket crossovers are the way to go, or even an all-active system, but I suspect this throws the baby out with the bathwater and strays too far away from the Tannoy sound, at least based on my limited experience with an aftermarket MG crossover from a well-known Tannoy reseller. (I'll look for the frequency response measurement I took of said crossover so stay tuned!).

    * I can feel the analogue purists shuddering in horror at the very thought!
     
  5. ToTo Man

    ToTo Man the band not the dog

    Here's a comparison of the stock LSU MG12/15 crossover and aftermarket "A-Series" crossover I tried. Something funky is clearly going on between 1kHz and 2kHz in the aftermarket crossover!:

    [​IMG]
     
  6. cooky1257

    cooky1257 pfm Member

    You could probably blend the LF/HF in any number of ways to produce a flat(ish) response but the character of that blend is where the art of 'voicing' comes into play and is one of the reasons why I shun the after market guys' offerings as not authentic unless they reproduce the originals to the very letter-furthermore dropping new AM crossovers onto old/aged units is a crap shoot unless the crossovers are bespoke for those particular drivers and reflect their current measurement/spec.....
     
  7. Jhon

    Jhon Member

    Hi everyone who is contributing to this thread. I'm impressed by the range of help, advice, opinion that's been expressed so far so collectively a very big thank you to you all. I'm posting briefly today to say that I'm still in Wales and struggling with connections but I will pitch in and make replies and further queries later this week. I wouldn't want anyone to think I was a rude bugger who just ignored stuff? But whilst I'm here the thought crossed my mind that in very loosely similar custom forums - I'm thinking cars and bikes and w.h.y. there are physical events where folk collect , demonstrate and share their efforts. Is there Anything similar in the loudspeaker world ?
     
  8. Jhon

    Jhon Member

    Thanks for the graph .it seems to confirm ff1d1l what has to say in so much as to smooths the response curves. Did any one else use silver xovers with gold's. And thanks to for the suggestion to have the gold's checked but by whom and at what sort of cost?
     
  9. Jhon

    Jhon Member

    Thanks Tony I have to confess onken cabs are new to me . Did any one actually try it it would be good to hear from them and who would make then. It seems there are a few measurable parameters to take into account in designing an onken. My only measuring equipment is my ears! So I would prefer a manufactured version by someone who has experience and development cos I would fear that getting some dimension or another a bit wrong would negate the benefits of onkens. I do have reasonable facilities and help to build cabs but need sharp information to work from
     
  10. Jhon

    Jhon Member

     
  11. Jhon

    Jhon Member

    Thanks cooky. I have to confess that the world of tannoy DC s is more diverse than I knew. does 12r = reds or does it refer to surrounds? How do you tell which surrounds you have? Sorry if this sounds a stupid question but I'm stupid . Otherwise I appreciated your direct observation of 130l cabs tuned to 28 herz. But are my gold's right for it ?
     
  12. cooky1257

    cooky1257 pfm Member

    No, quite the opposite, the graph shows the crossover transfer function or ‘equalisation’ applied to the raw driver responses.

    12R refers to the rubber surround( obvious just by looking) version which has a much deeper bass response than the hard edge version. The 28hz/130L is for the 12R driver.
     
  13. Jhon

    Jhon Member

    Thanks I appreciate your comment . I can relate to how you descrbe what you're hearing . I did come across a previous post of yours in which you were describing building cabs and the result you got which I also liked but lost track of it. Can you point me back to it?
     
  14. Jhon

    Jhon Member

    Thanks for picking this up What was the effect?
     
  15. Jhon

    Jhon Member

    Appreciate that thanks
     
  16. ff1d1l

    ff1d1l pfm Member

    https://pinkfishmedia.net/forum/threads/jbl-4430-build.225699/
    it wasn't Tannoys, was JBL 4430 clones.
     
  17. cooky1257

    cooky1257 pfm Member

  18. mega lord

    mega lord Centre tapped

  19. Jhon

    Jhon Member

    Thanks your jbl's look fabulous but the thread i picked up was different- it involved blinding a bitumen coat to the interiors with sand and casting plaster of Paris over that.
     
  20. Jhon

    Jhon Member

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