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Pit Opening Program?

Discussion in 'off topic' started by redcogs, Feb 21, 2011.

  1. MichaelC

    MichaelC pfm Member

    Such eloquent prose.

    "This isn't "our" structural deficit, it was caused by the rich" I think you will find that a structural deficit existed before the banking crisis...
  2. MichaelC

    MichaelC pfm Member

    So what are you trying to say?
  3. MichaelC

    MichaelC pfm Member

    "The corporations continue to stack up profits to distribute to that parasitic and workshy layer called the shareholders, and on it goes."

    Oh dear. The shareholders. Those shareholders could be your pension providers. Those shareholders could be the investors who got a business off the ground, the people who were willing to take the risk where others feared to tread... What alternative do you suggest? Please outline to me your vision of your utopian society and how it would function. Your posts are full of venom but I do not see you posting alternative suggestions.

    I'll stick to being what you imagine to be a parasitic and workshy type. You really have no idea.
  4. russel

    russel ./_dazed_and_confused

    Do you think your actions are a force for good or evil?
  5. Mick P

    Mick P Retired and content


    I have to say ... you do ask some rather strange questions.

  6. russel

    russel ./_dazed_and_confused

  7. Mick P

    Mick P Retired and content

    No not ok it is a totally abstract question.
  8. MichaelC

    MichaelC pfm Member

    What would you like me to be?
  9. Mullardman

    Mullardman Moderately extreme...

    Why is it that whatever I and people of similar mind to me say is 'whingeing and moaning', whereas whatever you and people of similar mind to you say is 'unavoidable'.
    Second, I do not believe for a moment that there would be an exodus of worthwhile people from banking in the UK if bonuses were cut. And in any event, even a raving pinko like me recognises that we can only influence bonuses for banks in which we have massive shares and to which we have provided massive subsidies, to the detriment of many, very much poorer people.
    As to whether we can do without the self-important million plus banker types.
    I'll risk it.
  10. kendo

    kendo Prussian bot

    In the case of RBS they are going to reward failure (major losses) again. FFS WHY? If I had fuc* ed up at work to the same degree I would have been dismissed immediately. (It's not like they're on minimum wage after all)
  11. russel

    russel ./_dazed_and_confused

    Less damaging to Society. However, I am sure I will be outbid for your services.
  12. Mullardman

    Mullardman Moderately extreme...

  13. MichaelC

    MichaelC pfm Member

    Mmm, so what makes you think I damage society?

    "However, I am sure I will be outbid for your services". This may surprise you but the highest bidder doesn't always win.
  14. redcogs

    redcogs Harbethian Popular Front

    i refer you to my earlier post MichaelC (#185).

    Although it isn't a detailed 'blueprint' for change, the implications should be clear enough. The salient section reads:

    The fact remains that it is impossible for any 'free market' society to match production with the needs of our people. For food and shelter and warmth and health to become the main focus of our productve efforts it is essential that planning, allied to sympathetic co-ordination plus economic democracy have to supercede the irrational chaos of the market driven lunacy that is crippling our basic humanity.
  15. PsB

    PsB Citizen of Nowhere™

    Unfortunately all previous attempts to run radically different alternatives to free markets have been fairly disastrous both for the nation experimenting and its citizens. See the Soviet Union, Comecon, etc. Even China has converted to something best described as Market Leninism after decades of unsuccessful attempts to create a fundamentally different system.

    The compromise in many European nations of running a market economy combined with a basic social safety net (something referred to in the "Red" states in the US as "Socialism") strikes me as the least objectionable one so far. The UK seems to oscillate between this model and a more radical free markets agenda, perhaps under the influence of the North American model, the influence of the City and because attempts to move the country closer towards the European norm are met with screams about sovereignty and "interference from Brussels". Brussels Eurocrats have replaced the Gnomes of Zurich as the villains of choice.
  16. redcogs

    redcogs Harbethian Popular Front

    Point taken from this thoughtful contribution PsB.

    However, i still place my faith and trust in the ability of 'all the people' to be able to find a way towards a more human and nurturing society than that which the free market boom bust economy is able to offer.
  17. russel

    russel ./_dazed_and_confused

    We all damage society to some extent. All you have to do is use an oil based product.

    I am not surprised the highest bidder does not always win. Could be lots of reasons, bribery, right school tie, a "special" handshake..... as well as legitimate reasons such as quality etc.
  18. MichaelC

    MichaelC pfm Member

    Are you suggesting something along the lines of a command economy? For it is clear that command economies have singularly failed in meeting your utopia. I doubt anyone would disagree with the need to deal with the basic needs of people eg food, shelter, warmth and health. There is as ever no easy answer as to how this is best achieved. I will simply have to disagree with your view that a "free market" approach will not meet the needs of our people. Why? If I understand your interpretation of economic democracy then I would suggest that to you that it would in fact be counterproductive. Why? An economic democracy suggests to me an end resulting in mediocrity and falling production because there is no incentive to succeed. A free market which encourages success is in my view the most effective way for the state to collect taxes to address the basic needs of people. It's not perfect but if you can show me an alternative way then I will listen.
  19. MichaelC

    MichaelC pfm Member

    "We all damage society to some extent. All you have to do is use an oil based product." True. I just don't see where you are leading with this line of questioning.
  20. russel

    russel ./_dazed_and_confused

    You have said you focus on the profit. My point is if you do not think how the profit is generated then you are at risk of causing great damage, like Enron, Bear Stearns etc.

    The oil example was just to show you an instance, we all use oil based products without really thinking of the bribery and corruption it generates or the misery it causes many people who's lives are affected by the pollution.

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