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Poll : Next Labour Leader.

Discussion in 'off topic' started by Weekender, Dec 15, 2019.

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Who would you like as next leader of the L.P.

  1. Lisa Nandy

    12 vote(s)
    6.9%
  2. Keir Starmer

    88 vote(s)
    50.3%
  3. Jess Phillips

    25 vote(s)
    14.3%
  4. Angela Rayner

    5 vote(s)
    2.9%
  5. Rebecca Long-Bailey

    6 vote(s)
    3.4%
  6. Emily Thornberry

    4 vote(s)
    2.3%
  7. Other

    35 vote(s)
    20.0%
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  1. AndyU

    AndyU pfm Member

    People don’t vote for numpties. This is not difficult to understand.
     
  2. ciderglider

    ciderglider pfm Member

    Not sure Lavery would be a good choice. He may have been cleared of dodgy dealings, but unfortunately the press would use those allegations against him. And even if he didn't do anything illegal, if he was daft enough to find himself at the centre of such claims, he's probably not smart enough to be leader.
     
    Nigel likes this.
  3. Joe

    Joe pfm Member

    Let us take a quiet moment and think about that statement .
     
    Sue Pertwee-Tyr likes this.
  4. gavreid

    gavreid pfm Member

    Angela Rayner's speech is getting a lot of attention

    https://www.theguardian.com/politic...085eda5c1130d0#block-5e133aa78f085eda5c1130d0

    I think an important observation is the state of the left in Germany and in France on 11% and 6% respectively. So, like most here, she argues that Labour has to avoid the same fate. Indeed so! But you could still argue, on the results of the GE, as in 2017, that Corbyn has bucked the trend, albeit not as strongly as last time, but bucked the trend nevertheless. The French and the Germans would be much happier to be where Labour finds itself, rather than where they sit, after all. It follows then by this argument that the solution in the current circumstances is a continuity-Corbyn team with some tweaks to presentation etc, acceptance of Brexit (the result has been demonstrated over 3 elections now) in the here and now, rather than a race to the right, where the fate of the SPD and PS is waiting for them. Now that isn't an irrational position...
     
  5. Cheese

    Cheese Bitter lover

    Maybe, but you have to admit that being opposed to a clown like BJ is a little easier than having to beat Macron or Merkel. Give the current Labour Party a credible opposition and it will slip under 10%.

    Boris Johnson, bad as he is, might (from what I gather on pfm) still be among the least bad Tory candidates. Losing by such a margin to this bunch rather clearly shows how useless Corbyn actually was.
     
    JonR, doctorf and PsB like this.
  6. Tony L

    Tony L Administrator

    You can also argue that Labour went dramatically backwards when the other progressive parties (SNP, LD, Green) all significantly increased their voteshare if not seats. I realise Farage and Banks buying the more xenophobic and nationalist Labour votes in key areas tipped the balance somewhat, but even so there are lessons to be learnt here. The extent that Labour were wiped out in Scotland is especially significant, that really shows what a more credible leader with less extreme but still progressive policies can achieve. Basically the SNP pwned Labour at their own game.
     
  7. notaclue

    notaclue pfm Member

    To me, Jess Phillips sounds like she's constantly auditioning for a bad soap opera.

    Her words are often quite meaningless and essentially empty. I suspect the bad soap opera delivery is an attempt to hide this.

    I suppose Labour's realistic aim will be to find someone who won't lose as badly as Corbyn did and I suppose Starmer is a decent attempt to deliver that.

    If they want to outdo Corbyn and lose even worse than 1935, then I think Lavery is the man.
     
  8. gavreid

    gavreid pfm Member

    Maybe you'll have to wait for the argument to be disproven ;) Nobody at all went into this election thinking that Labour would make gains at the expense of the SNP...
     
  9. Stunsworth

    Stunsworth pfm Member

    Tweaks to presentation?

    It was the worst defeat for Labour in just about 100 years, and that's something Labour should celebrate because it could have been worse?
     
  10. gavreid

    gavreid pfm Member

    Acceptance of Brexit isn't a tweak to presentation, you're being selective, it's a move that would likely make you very upset
     
  11. Stunsworth

    Stunsworth pfm Member

    I wonder if you realise how bad things are at the moment. The constituency next to mine was created in the 1880s and before the last election had never returned a Tory MP. It had been a Labour seat since 1922 and in 1997 the MP had a majority of over 24,000. The Labour Party as it stands today has been rejected, and yet if we elect a Corbyn clone we’re supposed to believe things can be turned around in the next 5 years?
     
    JonR and doctorf like this.
  12. Seanm

    Seanm pfm Member

    You don't really think "a more credible leader with less extreme but still progressive policies" could have arrested Labour's collapse in Scotland do you? That's a long term process, and the real cataclysm came in 2015. I think you're destined to be disappointed by leaders if you expect so much of them. As for Sturgeon she's a pretty efficient operator but let's face it she's got one of the easiest jobs in British politics.
     
  13. Seanm

    Seanm pfm Member

    What was the majority in 2015?
     
  14. Stunsworth

    Stunsworth pfm Member

    14,000.

    2001 - 16,000
    2005 - 17,000
    2010 - 10,000
    2017 - 9,000
     
  15. Seanm

    Seanm pfm Member

    That's bad then.
     
  16. Woodface

    Woodface pfm Member

    I am not sure about that, 2017 was probably a one off. If we keep going down a leftwards trajectory we could end up like the respective parties in Germany. But we are pissing in the wind here really. I expected Corbyn to get trounced in 2017 but do better in 2019. Having said that, if he'd have been trounced in 2017 he wouldn't have contested 2019. None of this exists in a bubble.

    My overall take is that no one on here (me included) has a clue what's round the corner & how much effect a new leader will have. My best guess is that a better leader with a more focused manifesto would/could do better.
     
  17. gavreid

    gavreid pfm Member

    Of course I do, people thought that Labour was intent on reversing the referendum result. Just because opinion has shifted to the right doesn't mean Labour should follow. At times like this it's important to take principled positions not opportunist ones
     
    Sue Pertwee-Tyr and Seanm like this.
  18. PsB

    PsB Citizen of Nowhere™

    Corbyn has not bucked the trend. He has led the Labour Party to its worst defeat in living memory, against one of the most feeble Tory sides in years. If you think a Corbyn continuity candidate can reverse Labour's fortunes "with some tweaks to presentation", you're a bigger optimist (or a bigger believer in the miracles of political marketing) than I am.
     
    JonR, doctorf, Seeker_UK and 2 others like this.
  19. SteveS1

    SteveS1 I heard that, pardon?

    Your delusions become more ridiculous by the week.

    Many more thought Labour’s position was not clear and were convinced Corbyn preferred Leave. Which given that Corbyn was a much bigger electoral issue anyway, is hardly worth the sweat. Are you suggesting that when Brexit brings more problems Labour should just nod along with it to appease their minority Leave support?

    Principled positions my eye. You obviously have a taste for opposition.
     
    Seeker_UK likes this.
  20. Seeker_UK

    Seeker_UK Waiting for the streetcar..

    Well, that way you never run the risk of showing that you don't actually have the perfect solution where everyone's a winner.
     
    Woodface likes this.
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