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Reclocking USB signals - significant improvement !

Discussion in 'audio' started by cpg, Feb 1, 2020.

  1. cpg

    cpg pfm Member

    I went to the "North Germany Hifi Show" today to go and listen to the Innuos "music servers" and ask various questions about them before potential purchase.
    The Innuos people were demonstrating one of the upper range models, Zenith (Zen with improved power supply) together with a pair of active speakers and the system sounded very good but not outstanding.
    I asked if the Phoenix USB DAC reclocker could be used with all the range and was given a demonstration of what difference reclocking (Phoenix added before the DAC) makes to the sound of the Zenith USB output. I was shocked by the improvement reclocking made to the sound, more space, clarity and general musical enjoyment.

    Has anyone else experienced this on other products?

    Edit: "Dynaudio" removed as the active speaker, I think the speakers were Kii threes
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2020
    Magnuska and andrewd like this.
  2. Thetiminator

    Thetiminator Painfully virile

    Yep. IME computer Audio is all about quality power supplies (for everything inc. main server, audio card, converters/filters) and reclocking...the more the better...
     
    Mr Underhill and Magnuska like this.
  3. ask

    ask Member

    So a little off topic but interested to know if the zenith went directly into the Dynaudio hub or if a dac was used?
     
  4. sq225917

    sq225917 situation engineer

    Wow, a 3k server with usb signal path that's sub par. You should buy a pi and a fifopi from iancanada only 150.
     
  5. evand

    evand pfm Member

    Stay away from dedicated "servers", they're marketing bullshit and don't do anything that can't be accomplished via a regular pc/laptop with a Pi4 or the like added to the mix. Power supplies do matter, but where depends on your audio chain and especially how you're connecting to DAC.

    Describe your audio chain and I'll see if I can make some suggestions esp if using LMS, Volumio, Roon etc.
     
  6. Fourlegs

    Fourlegs Trade: WAVE High Fidelity digital cables

    Well the ones are ones and noughts are noughts brigade got in nice and early for this thread.

    To @cpg all I can say is that you heard it with your own ears. It is not a question of a £3k server being sub par and it would have been interesting for you to have done the experiment with a cheap as chips rpi system as Innuos claim their reclocker weaves its magic with all servers and not just Innuos.

    I am waiting for my usual dealer to get a demo unit to try in my system and perhaps you could do the same.
     
    andrewd likes this.
  7. Emlin

    Emlin MQA Hater!

    You sound anxious...
     
    Nic Robinson and John_73 like this.
  8. AndyU

    AndyU pfm Member

    Reclocking an asynchronous interface?

    “Sound of the USB output”


    oxymoron
    /ˌɒksɪˈmɔːrɒn/

    noun
    1. a figure of speech in which apparently contradictory terms appear in conjunction (e.g. faith unfaithful kept him falsely true )
     
    John_73 and Gaycha like this.
  9. cpg

    cpg pfm Member

    Apologies - I looked on the internet to check which Dynaudio speakers had been used and found out that I had made a mistake.
    The speakers were NOT Dynaudio, after a bit of research they appear to have been the Kii 3! (there were pale red and had a side mounted driver).
    This would make sense as the Kii 3 speakers have a usb input ideal for demonstrating the Phoenix reclocker.
     
    ask likes this.
  10. Fourlegs

    Fourlegs Trade: WAVE High Fidelity digital cables

    No, just pissed off with the know it all farts who in reality know rather less than they think they do.
     
    Cereal Killer and rn82497 like this.
  11. MarkW

    MarkW Full Speed & Pagan

    Righteous indignation or vested interest?

    Foo merchant either way.
     
    AndyU likes this.
  12. Del monaco

    Del monaco pfm Member

    Perhaps the reality is that they know far more than you'd like them to know.
     
    seethroughyou, fried, Emlin and 7 others like this.
  13. AndyU

    AndyU pfm Member

    Just think for a moment how unlikely the o/ps claim is to be true. The USB input for the Kiis is on the Kii control unit. Data from this is converted to Kiis Kiilink protocol and sent to the speakers via several meters of CAT5 , and then the speakers themselves upsample and reclock again. I know a butterfly farting in Guatemala is supposed to be able to cause a stock market crash in Hong Kong, but the likelihood of the claimed effect existing is negligible. I wonder if Kii have been asked it there is anything wrong with their kit?
     
    Gaycha and PhilofCas like this.
  14. Gaycha

    Gaycha pfm Member

    Leave him be. The guy just wants something to do on a Sunday. Personally with a set up like that, I'd just listen to the music and put my feet up with a glass.

    Audio market all in one Music servers are fine for non-computer literate old skool digital audiophiles with very deep pockets and subjective leanings. There is nothing wrong with them, but the world of dac chips, interfaces, networking and SW- all integrated- has changed so much since the 80s that they will find themselves metaphorically, experimenting with different polishes to make a mid field F1 car aerodynamically faster, whilst watching Mercedes, Ferrari et al pulling away.

    Nice boxes. Nice dealer margins. I wouldn't say no to one, but I would not claim it superior to any pi, NAS, premium dac setup.
     
    Moppit, booja30 and Del monaco like this.
  15. Gaycha

    Gaycha pfm Member

    It's about power supplies apparently. Kii may have skimped with theirs, so it matters not if innous have gone all belt n braces with their own. And then if you have non audiophile CAT cables, well, shudder at thought....

    I get it, it's a quest for rounder pool balls, fed by profitable niche business. But if you have happy customers, what else counts. Until someone launches a hi fi grade DAD (digital to digital) converter to make the component 1s and 0s better!

    Then someone else will change the PSU.

    So it goes, but that generation is dwindling along with the Foo Feeders.
     
    Del monaco likes this.
  16. Purité Audio

    Purité Audio Trade: Purite Audio

    Kii make ( one) if not the best measuring loudspeaker available, do you have any evidence that Kii have skimped on their ‘power supplies’ amps in the Kiis are Hypex NCore one of if not the best measuring amplifier available.
    Never forget there is huge vested interest encouraging you to continually ‘upgrade’, simply charlatans no more no less.
    Keith
     
    seethroughyou, evand, AndyU and 2 others like this.
  17. Del monaco

    Del monaco pfm Member

    It's not so much that many of these 'potential foolutions' make no improvement to the sound(difference isn't necessarily improvement) it's the price that the clients are expected to pay that makes me very uncomfortable. I'm so glad that I persevered with learning about Pi and it's audio add-ons and softwares. It has given me access to the music I need and the quality I covert. I will always advocate this route to others.
     
    seethroughyou likes this.
  18. Fourlegs

    Fourlegs Trade: WAVE High Fidelity digital cables

    You guys who like spouting miss one essential part of the OP’s post, he was shocked at how much of an improvement was made by the Innuos reclocker.

    Do you REALLY know as much about digital audio design as Innuos?

    And to those who try to ask whether that the demo implies the Kii 3 are broken or poorly designed or inferior, you have to realise the Kii or their dealer was a willing participant in this demo and I doubt that the dealer or Kii think that Innuos are charlatans despite what K thinks.

    Something that turned a Kii 3 system from good to outstanding might be worth a listen.
     
    Thorn likes this.
  19. Purité Audio

    Purité Audio Trade: Purite Audio

    seethroughyou likes this.
  20. Fourlegs

    Fourlegs Trade: WAVE High Fidelity digital cables

    You have the Kii 3. Why not just borrow an Innuos reclocker and have a listen? That wouldn’t hurt you would it?

    I admit I have not heard it but I do find it laughable that there is so much outrage vented on here from others who have also not heard it and bearing in mind it is a product from a reputable company who do know a lot about digital audio.
     
    Cereal Killer and andrewd like this.

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