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Reclocking USB signals - significant improvement !

Discussion in 'audio' started by cpg, Feb 1, 2020.

  1. Cereal Killer

    Cereal Killer fourhundredandthirtytwo

    Yes i don't get the Phoenix's purpose but then again I've never heard it either. (and I'd never in a 100 years spend £2250 on it)
    booja30 likes this.
  2. tuga

    tuga European

    All things being equal high-res has higher performance potential.
    Besides, if the recording was produced in high-res then downscaling it to Redbook is a lossy process.

    But I agree that the industry is taking advantage of the consumer, trying to sell the same music over and over again.
    If one buys a CD on Amazon one can download the content (albeit in mp3) for free. In my view record labels should not only replace damaged CDs but also provide newer masters and higher resolution formats for free. It is outrageous that we have to pay several times for some thing we buy.
  3. tuga

    tuga European

    I you are unable to perceive the benefits of upsampling the 16/44.1 is probably enough, besides if you feed a NOS DAC a 24/192 file the distortion will reduce exponentially resulting in a loss of character which is probably what attracts some people to NOS DACs in the first place.
  4. thebiglebowski

    thebiglebowski pfm Member

    Ah that old chestnut, my hearing is just fine thank you, last hearing test had the upper limit at 16 KHz.

    Just in case you want to you use the other stupid argument, my system is revealing enough as well.

    Perhaps there is no benefit to upsampling and what you hear is imagined because you want the benefit to be there?
    Emlin and sq225917 like this.
  5. tuga

    tuga European

    I don't doubt that your hearing is fine.

    Some people like some types of distortion, engineers use distortion to produce recordings. NOS Redbook produces distortion and top end roll-off. If people didn't like this there wouldn't be so much offer.

    I love roasted chestnuts byt the way. Have about half a kilo in the freezer.
  6. Andrew C!

    Andrew C! Been around a while....

    Comparing a vocal sampled at higher and lower rates was very interesting. Plus, the ability to switch between the two very quickly removed that element of expectation bias....
  7. thebiglebowski

    thebiglebowski pfm Member

    I don't believe that works.

    I attended a DAC bake off where we blind tested 2x DACs, they were level matched and then the guy played the first 30 seconds of the same song and switched the sources behind a blanket so nobody could see or hear the selection. He even went as far as using die to select the DAC selection order.

    On one occasion it came out that he played the sample through the same DAC four times, out of the five people listening not one person got it right and overall nobodies accuracy went much above guessing averages.

    The two DACs being tested.......Sonos Connect and a Resonnesance Mirra

    I have to listen to a bit of kit for at least a few days before I will decide whether I like the flavour or not.
  8. tuga

    tuga European

    By the way, I listen mostly to classical music and when adequately mic'ed classical recordings hardly ever extend to 20kHz at significant levels.
    This is a 24/96 BIS recording of the first movement of Rachmaninoff's 3rd Symphony (dark blue is 100dB down):

  9. Alex S

    Alex S carbon based lifeform

    That’s pretty :)
  10. tuga

    tuga European

    The benefits can be measured. For example, the following sinewave should be reconstructed as a perfect line:

    Audio Note CD-4.1x, waveform of 1kHz sinewave at 0dBFS (1ms time window).
  11. thebiglebowski

    thebiglebowski pfm Member

    Nice try, scaling any waveform down to a 1ms scale is going to look like a step.

    Not that anyone could discern a few millivolt change in micro seconds represented by one of those steps.
  12. tuga

    tuga European

    For those who have never seen one:
    The horizontal scale at the bottom shows the time as the music unfolds.
    The vertical scale on the left shows the frequency. A male adult should be able to hear frequencies up to 18kHz if young, 14/16kHz is more likely if middle-aged.
    The vertical scale on the right shows the level below the loudest sound. Cyan corresponds to 70dB below.

    If you wish to check if you can hear -70dB try the following test:

  13. Andrew C!

    Andrew C! Been around a while....

    Ok. Fair enough. I recorded a vocal of a cover song at the higher res, using logic. Then altered the res to lower. We also played at recording separate vocals at lower and higher res. It was very interesting listening to the results.

    No big deal tho. Each to their own...
    Cereal Killer likes this.
  14. tuga

    tuga European

    Only when the DAC is missing a reconstruction filter.

    I'm sure that by now you've watched Keith's favourite video.
  15. Gaycha

    Gaycha pfm Member

    I gave you a civil and full explanation of why USB is redundant and why coax is preferable. I illustrate with example of how relatively untaxing audio loads are,and also raise reasoned questions as to why the cottage hi fi industry persists with USB as primary digital interface.

    You seem very sensitive to criticism of your preferences, and also defensive, whilst simultaneously being demeaning to others, many of whom I think question articulately your rationale. You ask someone to elaborate on one hand, then on the other hand want Tony to snip stuff out, cos it's a bunch of blokes trying to impress with second hand knowledge.

    I going to leave you to it, as I don't feel your knowledge displayed here, beyond 'I like the sound, ergo it's good' , is even close to second rate, irrespective of subjectivity or objectivity.
  16. clivem2

    clivem2 pfm Member

    What that tells me is that the listeners need to be trained and tested as happens with professional blind testing. It sounds like people only not couldn’t detect different kit they couldn’t detect when the same dac was used. This demonstrates why amateurs such as ourselves can play at dbt but no valid conclusions can be drawn other than we are probably not sufficiently skilled testers.
    Sue Pertwee-Tyr and tuga like this.
  17. tuga

    tuga European

    Many high performance DAC sound and measure best when fed their highest admissible rate of PCM or DSD.
    The RME ADI-2 DAC, that takes DSD512. Can you send DSD512 or PCM32/768 over S/PDIF?
  18. thebiglebowski

    thebiglebowski pfm Member

    which is why I don't believe blind testing works as an argument on forums.
    Sue Pertwee-Tyr and clivem2 like this.
  19. thebiglebowski

    thebiglebowski pfm Member

    Why do recording and mixing studios use AES3 then?
    Gaycha likes this.
  20. tuga

    tuga European

    Good question... I have no idea.
    Why do studios use cråppy speakers like the NS10s?

    Some, like BIS, use optical.
    Other's are using Ethernet/Dante.

    Chord has to use a pair of coaxs in order to output PCM768 from the M Scaller.

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