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The 2020 F1 Season

Discussion in 'off topic' started by Tony Lockhart, Dec 12, 2019.

  1. bob

    bob pfm Member

    In the last 20 years there have been 4 winners of colour, your words. Farah, Hamilton, Holmes and Lennox Lewis.
  2. Rack Kit

    Rack Kit pfm Member

    But he isn’t. There’s a lot people out there who just don’t like him for no reason and that includes a lot of F1 fans. It’s bizarre!
    tiggers likes this.
  3. bob

    bob pfm Member

    There will be a lot of people who don't like Max or Seb or any other driver. Loads of football fans hated Beckham, why was that? Some people hate seeing others succeed.
    Tony Lockhart likes this.
  4. Tony Lockhart

    Tony Lockhart Avoiding Stress, at Every Opportunity

    And yet he maintains his dignity and keeps winning.
  5. tiggers

    tiggers pfm Member

    Hamilton is well known for wearing his heart on his sleeve, but it's difficult to show emotion in an F1 car hurtling round a track as opposed to stopping every time you score or lose a point as on a tennis court. Mansell, Hill, Hunt .... all were massively popular... so your argument is not holding water with me. As said this is potentially the greatest driver of all time we have here not someone who like so many others has won a few races.... or a few grand slams to keep the comparison running. Anyway I'll leave it there and just get on with looking forward to the new season... hopefully we will get a good 3,4 or 5 way battle for the title and may the best man win.
    Tony Lockhart likes this.
  6. SteveS1

    SteveS1 I heard that, pardon?

    What Lewis has achieved and continues to achieve is simply stunning. For anyone who hasn't, just take a look at his record through all the motor racing he has ever been involved in.


    He is, by any reasonable measure, exceptional and we are very lucky to have seen him. As someone who spent years waiting to see a British driver win consistently in F1, never mind dominate it, I can't for the life of me understand the haters. All I can say is their loss.
    Rack Kit and Roger Adams like this.
  7. 2ManyBoxes

    2ManyBoxes pfm Member

    Hair style. Both Beckham and Hamilton have mucked about with their hair and some still think that is not the Done Thing. You're perceived as being a pretentious git who is not a Real Man who drinks and shags tarts like James Hunt did for Britain. Murray has left his well alone, his Mum would never allow it :)

    Don't forget that with the press you're talking about what the Prince of Darkness Murdock :mad: likes. I really do hate that guy.
    Tony Lockhart likes this.
  8. Tony Lockhart

    Tony Lockhart Avoiding Stress, at Every Opportunity

    In general Brits detested Senna until after he died. I wasn’t a fan until I was lucky enough to see him at Donington, 1993.

    Perhaps by about 2040 Lewis will be viewed only through dewy eyes.
    Rack Kit and Roger Adams like this.
  9. Roger Adams

    Roger Adams pfm Member

    Apologies Bob. I wasn't counting 1999 as it was the last century. I'd forgotten about Holmes. I have to say, it does seem a remarkably low level given the number of men and women of colour who seem to have represented us on so many stages over that period.

    A British F1 team hasn't won it since 1962! Neither Mclaren or Williams ever got the honour despite their periods of remarkable dominance.

    I do find it sad that Hamilton gets less recognition as a role model more than anything else. His story is remarkably uplifting and encouraging to a social group who, let us be honest, face many challenges in life that most of us will never understand.

    And if the Gipsy wins this year, the clothing issue will have to go out the door once and for all :)
    Rack Kit likes this.
  10. windhoek

    windhoek The Phoolosopher

    Yeah, that's what I was alluding to: Murray's personality is extremely visible when he's on the court whereas Hamilton's can only really be seen through his driving, which sin't something that appeals to that many nowadays - at least not since F1 went primarily down the PPV route. Still, Hamilton is popular in this thread if nowhere else :)
  11. Roger Adams

    Roger Adams pfm Member

    Nigel Mansell CBE. Damon Hill OBE. Sir Jackie Stewart...
    Rack Kit likes this.
  12. Rack Kit

    Rack Kit pfm Member

    Doesn’t look good does it?
    Roger Adams likes this.
  13. Tony Lockhart

    Tony Lockhart Avoiding Stress, at Every Opportunity

    More recognition? By who?
    The media? The royals? Other drivers? The Women’s Institute?

    I don’t get this. His future is very bright indeed. He calls the shots, and appears to be taking his time.

    Most of us here ridicule the whole knighthood etc schemes anyway. After all, a drug-taking rock star can get one.

    It’s pointless. He’s recognised. He’s rich beyond our dreams. He has more to come.
  14. matt j

    matt j pfm Member

    I think it's quite simple, most Brits love the underdog, the plucky loser, especially where sport is concerned. They may moan that we never producer a born winner but secretly they revel in supporting an affable no-hoper rather than cheering on a consistent winner with a confident outlook on their own talent/ability.

    It's just an extension of not liking a cocky, confident know-it-all.

    Then there is the closet racism.
  15. Roger Adams

    Roger Adams pfm Member

    Whatever we think of SPOTY or the honours list, the lack of Hamilton's appearance/recognition considering the inspiration he provides, his success and his scandal free lifestyle, speaks volumes about the establishment and sends the wrong message to millions of vulnerable British citizens.

    He is the epitome of a man who has risen from being a no hoper - a single black man in a sport totally dominated by wealthy White kids. I have never heard him be anything less than polite and respectful to either his opponents, the media or the public.
    Gaslight and Tony Lockhart like this.
  16. IanW

    IanW pfm Member

    A few points from an insider.

    1. As Frank has put it before in the Williams documentary, Mansell is 3 people in 1, a very fast racing driver, a family man and an arsehole. I saw 1 of those aspects of him when he was at McLaren F1...
    2. Maybe if Lewis had stronger competitors in his sister car (Alonso very strong, Button very good but only had one championship in him, but Rosberg and Bottas are nowhere near the same level), he may have become even more respected (more widely even).
    3. Lewis, according to some on PFM, made a very bad move joining Merc when he did, but Ross had convinced of what was to come, and was right. So joining McLaren and then Merc has given him some of the best cars on the grid to drive, would he have looked so good in a Williams etc?
    4. I am amazed that he hasn't won SPOTY more often, just as I am amazed that the Brawn did not win the team SPOTY award in 2009.
    Roger Adams likes this.
  17. Roger Adams

    Roger Adams pfm Member

    Ian, do you think that what Hamilton did to Alonso, both on the track and inside his head, in his rookie season was one of the most impressive debut seasons of modern racing?

    I can't think of an operation that, since Mclaren, has employed two equally matched top drivers. Did it ultimately cost Mclaren the championship that year or is it a financial decision? Who do you think would run Hamilton close or win a mental battle with him in the Mercedes out of interest? Out of his generation over a whole season?

    It seems that Ferrari are at risk of repeating the scenario and even last year there was that friction ( for spectators at any rate).

    I was never given that close a look, but Mansell introduced some utterly vile people to the sport IME - the atmosphere at the British GP was unbearable all of a sudden. Hamilton did seem a lot better in qualifying than Button at Mclaren. Do you think that Hamilton's race craft has improved in the last 7-8 years?

    Finally (and again from a clueless outside POV), Schumacher had no better team mates and Rosberg seemed to have the measure of him in his ageing stage just before retirement. Was that the case?

    PS. You can no doubt tell I'm totally and unashamedly biased :)
  18. Roger Adams

    Roger Adams pfm Member

    I admire teams or individuals who excel and separate themselves from their competition over time. In football,as this time, that would be Lionel Messi and, to a lesser degree, Christiano Ronaldo. I'm not a football fan. I don't follow enough sports these days to list those that have that quality. Usain Bolt and Carl Lewis in sprinting Coe and Ovett ( I always saw the former as a natural and the latter as an incredibly focussed hard worker.),

    There are athletes who, over the time, have continued to raise the bar again and again - without competition from others. In F1, I never "hated" another winning. I admired Senna's natural talent which did not prevent me from also admiring the sheer intelligence and application of Alain Prost. I hugely admired Niki Lauda for coming back as he did and winning a Championship. Truly inspirational.

    Simone Biles is a wonderful example of this excellence at this time. Gareth Sobers and Ken Barrington from before my time, whose batting averages showed just how consistently brilliant they were regardless of opposition. It matters not who they played for.

    These are all people who excelled in their generation of athletes regardless of whether I liked them or the operation they worked for or represented. I couldn't care about their nationality or their religion. I care about their application and their making the most of (of exceeding) their God given talent and opportunities. That inspires me.

    Right now, as I say, I don't watch much sport as it has become so commercial. Hamilton however fits my brief for greatness.
    Rack Kit likes this.
  19. tiggers

    tiggers pfm Member

    Have to say I find this notion that Rosberg was nowhere near the same level as rather fanciful. Rosberg (IMO FWIW) was a lot better driver than many gave him credit for. He kept Schumacher honest and much of the time was very close to Hamilton. Sure he was not quite at the same overall level, but he was still extremely quick .... I know everyone points to the 2016 Malaysia GP and Hamilton's engine blowing as the reason Rosberg won his championship, but that's racing and if you look at 2014 had Hamilton's car gone wrong in he last GP the way Rosberg's did Rosberg would be a 2 time WC. Not taking anything away from Hamilton, but I just hope Rosberg is remembered as a driver that gave Hamilton a serious run for his money and a worthy WC as IMO that is what he is.
    AndyPW and Rack Kit like this.
  20. Roger Adams

    Roger Adams pfm Member

    His Father sported superior facial hair
    Rack Kit and Tony Lockhart like this.

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