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The more Reg's the better On Naim 72 ???

Discussion in 'd.i.y.' started by Mynamemynaim, May 18, 2020.

  1. Mynamemynaim

    Mynamemynaim 35yrs a Naim owner

    So my Naim 72 is fed from a DIY hicap with 2x AWSR boards in it and the separate earth mod

    The 72 itself has Ryan sound labs boards in it (which have there own onboard Reg's)

    The the question is ... would there be any benefit in upping the hicap output voltage at the AWSRs and then feeding some Teddy regs put in to the 72 ... before then feeding the boards??

    In other words...regs feeding regs feeding regs

    Is this overkill or a worthwhile mod... bearing in mind I will have to buy the teddyregs as I don't have any

    Thanks for any knowledgeable input
     
  2. Gervais Cote

    Gervais Cote Predator

    All the improvements I had with the shoebox NAC and Hicap were more about faster trannys and higher quality caps rather than higher voltage so far.
     
  3. Mynamemynaim

    Mynamemynaim 35yrs a Naim owner

    I'm not sure you have understood the mods I'm talking about
    The voltage increase is ONLY to accommodate the drop over another set of regs
     
  4. sq225917

    sq225917 Bit of this, bit of that

    Strictly speaking aren't superteddyregs filters rather than regs?

    It might make a difference, but I doubt it, kits main boards are super well regulated, four per board I think.
     
  5. Jo Sharp

    Jo Sharp Pulls on doors marked push

    I really don’t think that would bring any benefit. As SQ says, the RSL boards have excellent built in regulation and the ALW regs give a very clean supply. I’d be surprised if even a 252/Supercap would be significantly better than what you have...some might say not even as good.
     
    Gervais Cote likes this.
  6. nobeone

    nobeone pfm Member

    Interestingly, if I understood Kit correctly, his pre had additional regulation before the RSL boards and he thought that better. So in RSL land, ZapCap, then more regulation locally in pre, then RSL boards. I think it is fair to say Kit doesn't suggest Teddy Regs unless you need the absolute quietest supply, and prefers lower impedance better regulation than out and out quietest.
     
  7. Mynamemynaim

    Mynamemynaim 35yrs a Naim owner

    Thanks to all that have answered my question

    I had a feeling that even more Reg's ( or filters !!) Might not make a noticeable improvement
    It really does sound magnificent already...I just want more!!
    Think on your advice I may shelve this one ..and think about other improvements
    Thanks again everyone
     
  8. sq225917

    sq225917 Bit of this, bit of that

    I stopped my travels on the 72 once it had 4 local strs feeding modded versions of Neil's time aligned and gain boards.
     
  9. Mynamemynaim

    Mynamemynaim 35yrs a Naim owner

    The 72 really is a (simple) giant killer when modded . I bet that sounded amazing sq ..

    I'm not missing my 252 ...that was a bit of a blind ally for me somehow but this last year with the 72 ... brilliant!
     
  10. RyanSoundLab

    RyanSoundLab Trade: Ryan Sound Lab

    Concur with Nobeone's words about regulators. I noticed improvements with up to three levels of regulation in series. Generally one was in the separate power supply, one on the mother board and a final one on the plug-in board itself. These were not just "any" regulators and it is possible to hurt the downstream performance if you put something not great upstream of it. For example, adding the plug-in board regulation was a big plus when using a standard HiCap. But when I later replaced the HiCap regulators, I was amazed at how much more improvement I got. Adding a 3rd stage in between (on the motherboard) was yet even better, probably because it was so much closer to the plug-in boards (this was on a preamp which I no longer sell).

    Voltage drops become more important as you start piling up the regulators. Supposedly an LDO will regulate down to below 1 volt but it turns out that's only true if you provide it with two separate power sources! Otherwise it's more like 2v minimum. To my ears 3-4v minimum was better sounding for each regulator level. The plug-in boards I make regulate to 20v down from a typical Naim 24v system. That's fine. With three levels, you will need to be at 28v out from the first regulator. Not a big deal, but you have to read the datasheets closely and then listen, too!
     
  11. Brennus

    Brennus Well-Known Member

    I have a 32 with RSL boards (no phono) powered by a Snaps/TPR4, one 25v line goes to the “321” boards the other to the buffer board.

    I am very pleased with this setup but will extra regulation improve this or would a second power supply just for the amplifier boards be better? Or what? I’d be happy to leave it like it is, but always curious about a potential improvement.
     
  12. RyanSoundLab

    RyanSoundLab Trade: Ryan Sound Lab

    I think you've got a good setup as is. The two pairs of boards already have their own separate regulator within the TPR4. The two rails share only the ground wire now and, yes it might be a tiny bit better with a 2nd separate supply, but I wouldn't expect too much. Replacing the TPR4 with an RSL regulator would probably make more of a difference, but then I'm biased so you can't trust that statement without corroboration.....
     
  13. Brennus

    Brennus Well-Known Member

    People here speak highly of the RSL regulator, so that may be the way to go.
     
  14. nobeone

    nobeone pfm Member

    If you haven't already, I would recommend asking Kit to try the ZapCap. Play something with a tight bass line and stand back in amazement as it bests your TPR4 Hicap. You may not like the tightness, snap and tuneful bass it brings, you might prefer the slight bloom a TPR4 brings (which can be mistaken for more bass), but you really should try it and see. After all, Kit does provide a demo unit for free. Sure, you are thinking, there goes Nobeone again, talking away, everybody else says the TPR4 is the bees knees, yeah? You might want to ask a few other fishes and see what they think, I know @YNWOAN has been trying it and describing what he hears ...
     
  15. RyanSoundLab

    RyanSoundLab Trade: Ryan Sound Lab

    To get on the ZapCap loaner list, please send your name and address privately directly to my email: jc.ryan@verizon.net
     
  16. Brennus

    Brennus Well-Known Member

    Hi Nobeone I was always a bit mystified that the TPR4 made no real difference to you, but then you were fitting it to a Hicap whereas I was fitting it to an old Snaps, and replacing the rectifier and capacitor as well. I thought it transformed the sound of the system. All part of life’s rich pageant!

    The bass on certain tracks has a bloom to it. I was putting this down to the 160, but a RSL power supply may be the answer, and Ynwoan is impressed too, so I will give it a go.
     
  17. Mynamemynaim

    Mynamemynaim 35yrs a Naim owner

    Hi Kit! @RyanSoundLab
    Wasn't expecting you to pop up to help with my original question... thanks!

    So if I read you correctly...in the preamp you were using (different to mine) an extra set of regs between the power supply regulated output...and your RSL regulated boards did make a (noticeable??) Difference?

    Now I know you are not in the business of recommending others products ...as I originally mentioned teddy regs....but I haven't bought the extra regs yet .. so am happy to consider any that you make ....but in theory your saying that if I up the output voltage sufficiently to give a few volts headroom on the AWSRs and then feed that into either your (or teddys) extra regs ..before the RSL boards I'm already using...then this is a worth while investment...yes?
     
  18. sq225917

    sq225917 Bit of this, bit of that

    The superregs should the last ones in the chain, no point fitting a noisier reg last.
     
    martin clark likes this.
  19. nobeone

    nobeone pfm Member

    Ah well, perhaps I have cloth ears, I would not dare to suggest YNWOAN has though ;). Or maybe since the TPR4 has LM317 it does sound a lot like a Hicap, a better Hicap I acknowledge, but the same sound signature, perhaps that is ideal, I think it is perhaps why many took to it over say Teddy Pardo PSUs? Or perhaps using Avondale separation of power and signal cabling as I do reduces the TPR4 benefit compared to those using Naim wiring, as you have already stopped PSU noise coupling in to the signal in the SNAIC? Whichever, I liked the TPR4, still have it, it is better than a standard Hicap, but I just don't agree with it being the single biggest, best, upgrade ever which is the position others here take. That is all fine, we all have different systems, different priorities, and hey, I can be wrong too!

    The ZapCap is a bigger change in sound than a TPR4, no doubt about that, and it may not be for all, however I feel with Kit's generosity with demo units you would be a mug not to try it. I feel it adds the same qualities as the RSL MagicPower upgrade cards: better dynamics, better soundstage, better bass control. I think the TPR4 does two of those, but retains the Naim Hicap bloom in the bass ...
     
  20. Mynamemynaim

    Mynamemynaim 35yrs a Naim owner


    So are you saying that the AWSR is a step up from the Teddy Super regs (that I thought were supposed to be an update and improved version of the AWSR?)

    Nobeone....not sure why you keep suggesting the zapcap?
    I have a nice DIY hicap with HUGE transformer and well built AWSR already... My scope shows a lovely smooth output ...so why scrap that for a zapcap?
     

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