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The Ongoing UKIP PR Disaster thread

Discussion in 'off topic' started by Tony L, Dec 14, 2014.

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  1. SteveG

    SteveG pfm Member

    At least these latest UKIP sagas should lill any worries about a Tory/UKIP coalition government, for two very good reasons:
    1) They won't get enough seats to matter much (that's my prediction anyway)
    2) They're not really a party as such - just a collection of pretty odd indivualists - so you could expect them all to vote the same way or follow a party line
     
  2. matthewr

    matthewr spɹɐʍʞɔɐq spɹoɔǝɹ ɹnoʎ sʎɐld

    If there are so many supporters who are switched on how come all their candidates seem to be falling down stupid?

    UKIP's success is a combination of populism (which plays especially well when times are hard), an element of "useful idiots" for the Tory and media right who want to shift politics away from the centre right and a media seemingly in love with them and the "paradigm shift" story line.
     
  3. SteveG

    SteveG pfm Member

    My guess is that there are plenty that support some aspect of UKIP policy (such as it is!), for example on controlling immigration, but are a long, long way away from being aligned enough to stand for the party because overall it appears to be pretty clearly on the lunatic fringe and populated by some very unsavoury sorts.
     
  4. Rodrat

    Rodrat pfm Member

    Don't forget, you don't have to be stupid to hold extreme right wing views, just misguided. My next door neighbour who is a retired doctor, is one of the nicest and kindest people you are likely to meet. However, he votes UKIP and puts up posters and placards.
     
  5. Tony L

    Tony L Administrator

    Wrong. You will notice I have not named / not allowed others to name *any* living person being mentioned elsewhere on the internet in relation to Westminster paedophilia etc. I am not partisan. To be bluntly honest I detest Labour and Conservative pretty much equally and would welcome anything that weakened the destructive strangle-hold they have on our politics. I am however legally responsible for this site and will only post serious accusations if backed by links to reports in the established mainstream media (i.e. entities far bigger than pfm with huge budgets and top-class legal teams). No shitty blogs etc, and some of the ones I've deleted are as shitty as they come. This is a simple act of self-preservation. FWIW I've very little time for Dacre or The Daily Mail, but I do know I'll not end up in court by linking to an article on it's website.

    PS I await your apology.
     
  6. SteveG

    SteveG pfm Member

    I'm not convinced an apology is warranted - even if it means a banning for me. I've read your numerous posts on the subject and you seem to very much want a public sex scandal to hit the Labour and Tory parties, while at the same time being quite happy to continue voting LibDem despite them already having one in the public domain.

    My view is that if there was a scandal and it was covered up then I'd want it to be made public - although I hope it didn't happen. That's despite having no great love for either the Tory or Labour parties.
     
  7. Tony L

    Tony L Administrator

    FWIW I'm fairly convinced it did happen. I'm also fairly convinced it's all one thing, i.e. this is just another facet to the Jimmy Savile story - he was part of a far larger picture.

    I've voted for the Lib Dems most of my voting life (i.e. before this scandal broke) purely because I believe in PR. My attitude to politics has always been to get a fair voting system in place first, once implemented I can then vote for whatever I believe in. The LDs have been the only party on the ticket who stood for it, so they got my vote. They have now proven they don't have the spine to force the issue when given the opportunity. We all are still learning what they knew about Smith's repugnant behaviour, and it is not looking good. I agree the very brightest spotlight needs to be shone on them just as it does on the Conservatives and Labour (and I believe some of the Northern Ireland parties too). I want the lot out in the open and I do not care who falls in the process.

    I have no idea who to vote for in 2015, even if I can be bothered at all. It's certainly unwise to view me as a loyal Lib Dem, I'm anything but!
     
  8. Mick P

    Mick P Retired and content

    Steve

    With all due respect you are wrong.

    Whist I disagree with nearly all of Tony's political views, (in fact I think he is a total eccentric nutter), he is 100% spot on about crappy blogs and naming names.

    Every member with an IQ above a poodle should have the sense not to name names or link to a blog because it puts pfm at risk of legal action. If you are prepared to sigh a duly witnessed legal document indemnifying pfm from any legal action and also agree to under write any claim for libel or defamination of character, then possibly Tony may take a softer line. Basically what you want is the freedom to say what you want whilst Tony sits there and takes the risk of being sued or closed down.

    Really this whole topic of commenting on current public scandals needs to be implemented in UAP and any breach thereof treated very seriously.

    You should apologise in this instance because it is deserved.

    Mick
     
  9. Soundwave

    Soundwave pfm Member

    Maybe you're the one who is misguided. No one should be so quick to judge others opinions because the are different. Highly likey they would think you misguided following the libdems or labour etc.
    You know nothing about the other UKIP supporters around the country or what their views are and you can't rely on the media to portray a reliable image. Guarantee they will find the simpletons to interview and bias the views.
    Both my folks are supporters and they were an accountant and an electronics test engineer. How many of those do you see interviewed by the Beeb!!
     
  10. Greg

    Greg 2t5b

    I've spent a fair bit of time discussing various subjects with self-proclaimed Ukippers online. They are a varied bunch, more more often than not they disagree with each other on quite fundamental issues.

    Some are overtly right-wing libertarians, yet express strong support for controlling flow of migrants, others are quite socialist in their views on some issues and yet express mockery of "the left". Some are overtly racist, some are seemingly fine about a multi cultural UK, but are vehemently opposed to the EU. Mixed bag but a fair few fruit-cakes.
     
  11. Cloth-Ears

    Cloth-Ears pfm Member

    Oh yes there's lots of mad people involved. Much more entertaining that way. :)
     
  12. swstokie

    swstokie Member

    NO WE DON"T. But we also do not need a party of self righteous, self serving Oxbridge PPE educated, political clones who have never had a proper job outside of politics, have no identity with the people they purport to represent, neither understand or care about there worries, concerns or how the policies of this political elite actually affect the lives of the average working man. What ever policies they implement, success or failure does not affect them or their families as they are all buffered from the fallout of their ideology by their own personal wealth, leaving the average man in the street to suffer and bare the consequences of their failure.

    Unfortunately for the last 20 years and presently so, if you vote Lib / Lab / Con this is what you will get. Three sides of the same political triangle, even Labour do not look out for the average working man anymore. Someone or something has to shake up the 'political elite' to start listening to what really concerns the people of the country instead of having the audacity to think they know what is best for us. Do the people of this country want to continue to be governed by Europe? Do the people of this country want immigration capped or stopped? None of them want to confront the questions head-on by offering a direct referendum now. Is that because they fear the answer, I wonder?
     
  13. kendo

    kendo Prussian bot

    SNP for me.:)
     
  14. Barrymagrec

    Barrymagrec pfm Member

    Me too.

    (Surrey Nationalist Party)
     
  15. SteveG

    SteveG pfm Member

    Mick - I don't disagree with him on not naming names etc. - I wouldn't do it in that case either. Where I disagree is the connection between historic sex scandals and voting intentions (hence my comments about it not stopping Tony from considering the LibDems) and what looks like a thirst for some juicy scandal affecting the Tories (although maybe he's just been spending too much time reading the Dail Mail of late!).
     
  16. lrt1367

    lrt1367 pfm Member

    here here !!
     
  17. richgilb

    richgilb Admonishtrator

    Not Oxbridge educated then....
     
  18. Mark EJ

    Mark EJ pfm Member

    To be quite honest, a great deal of UKIP support comes from people like your example. Clearly, your perception that he holds "extreme right wing views" is coloured by the fact that your 'viewing point' may be on the extreme left.

    Not sure which one you're referring to. Thorpe, Oaten or Smith? Or just 'Cleggover' generally? Or Paddy Pantsdown?
     
  19. TPA

    TPA Trade: Tiger Paw

    I'm not sure the UKIP programme is quite the PR disaster that many would like to believe. Sure they have inherited a bunch of nutters to get some traction but I'm sure they'll be ditched as the support grows.

    As mentioned earlier I've also come across a few 'sensible' UKIP supporters who seem to see through the nutter fringe. I'm sure the big 3 parties will work out how to neutralise them at some point so not convinced it'll go anywhere though. But who knows.
     
  20. Joe Hutch

    Joe Hutch Mate of the bloke

    Labour clearly hasn't got a clue how to respond to prospective voters re immigration: 'don't talk about it, change the subject, no votes in it for us' (probably walk away muttering about 'typical bigots' if things get difficult).
     
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