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Time for prog rockers to come out of the closet

Discussion in 'music' started by louballoo, May 31, 2010.

  1. stephen bennett

    stephen bennett Mr Enigma

    You obviously know nothing of, say, Pop, Rock, Jazz, Classical, Folk. Avant -Garde, Electroacoustic, serialism etc. You really believe there's no 'overwheening air of self importance' by anyone in those genres?

    I suggest you come to the Resonance festival on the second of August and meet some of the bands - I'll get you a VIP backstage pass. You wont find any of that sH&t there. :D

    You're always posting on Prog threads, so you're obviously a fan. He who doest protest too much!

    Stephen
     
  2. Mescalito

    Mescalito pfm Member

    I've actually seen a high proportion of the Prog bands live back in the day.
    Yes, ELP (& their predessors, The Nice), Genesis, Soft Machine, Caravan, Atomic Rooster, Renaissance, Third Ear Band, and quite a few more.

    I fact, it was seeing Yes one night followed by Eddie & the Hot Rods the following night which rammed home to me just how vacuous much of prog had become.

    And a succesful performer needs a big ego, and hence a certain arrogance and an overblown sense of his own importance. If they deliver the goods, it can be overlooked.

    When all they deliver is sixth form poetry & pointless noodlings & lots of dry ice, they deserve all they get.

    Chris
     
  3. sadcafe

    sadcafe pfm Member

    Ah, 6th form poetry. Yawn. Eddie and the hot rods road to Damascus moments. Yawn. Read my original comment about you and your ilk still fighting 40yr old playground arguments out. Not even 6th form. I beg to differ about Coltrane as well. All flash and no substance to these ears but unlike you I believe each unto their own etc.

    Stephen, think I am much more deserving of VIP tickets........ ;-) unfortunately I would have to turn it down though due to work. Have a great time - hope the intense and vacuous 6th form lite, content less virtuosos dont get you down too much. Such a bunch of humourless ego driven people I know.
     
  4. stephen bennett

    stephen bennett Mr Enigma

    sadcafe - if you ever get to see us, you're guaranteed a 'meet & greet.'

    Bloody work eh?

    I'm really looking forward to seeing The Enid, meeting ('tron hero') Robert Webb and seeing these lot - a homage to Chris.:D



    Stephen
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 21, 2018
  5. Mescalito

    Mescalito pfm Member

    I have no problem with people liking prog rock. But it was the case back in the 70's that prog rock fasns used to be insufferably smug about the noodlings of their idols and utterly intolerant of any dissent.

    Nothing much changes.

    Chris
     
  6. stephen bennett

    stephen bennett Mr Enigma

    Oh again Chris, not really true is it? Replace 'prog rock fasns' above (sic) with Monty Python fans, Manchester United fans etc etc and . I can't see why you single out Prog - everything you say is true to some extent with all human endeavour.

    Did a Prog rock fan do nasty things to you?:confused:

    Stephen
     
  7. Mescalito

    Mescalito pfm Member

    I married one!:)

    Prog fans have fragile musical egos. Amongst many things, I like americana &country rock. If (as has happened) someone posts something highly critical about the genre, I'll respond by making some listening suggestions which may change their perception of the genre. If the attack continues, I mentally shrug, & walk away. After all, different strokes.

    Prog fans react to a critique of the genre as if it was an attack on their sister's honour.

    Chris
     
  8. stephen bennett

    stephen bennett Mr Enigma

    Explains all. :D

    Really? A girl Prog fan? I thought they were like Dwarves - you can't tell the genders apart (joke!)

    That's because the ferocity of the 'criticism' is so strident and inaccurate - people are more likely to respond enthusiastically. Steven Wilson had an example when he read a criticism of his solo work as having 'tolkienesque lyrics' - which couldn't be further from the truth. It was lazy stereotyping and Prog gets more than its fare share.

    I just think that this hatred stems from the UK being generally uncomfortable with anything that smells of pretension (a good word,) ambition or talent. Prog is much, much, more popular overseas.

    Stephen
     
  9. sadcafe

    sadcafe pfm Member

    There is only one smug person on this thread. That is you. If you want to dish out the personal insults best be prepared to take some as well. Your liking of Americana - pretentious - were you raised in the American hinterland by any chance, Jazz - say no more. Punk, a middle class concept for middle class white boys with nothing to complain about - its easy to be dismissive (not big and not clever) You are too arrogant to see that this discussion has not been about Prog or music but about your perception of people who so happen to like it. I recognise some of your critisms of some of the music but your extension into what that means musicians and listeners are verge on the fascistic. Do not label anyone by the music they listen to. Your assumptions are based on falsehoods and prejudice. I have my own frustrations within this genre but can never discuss them in these forums due to the sneering side show bobs who always hijack these threads.
     
  10. Mescalito

    Mescalito pfm Member

    I have not made a single attack on any prog fan. I have not dished out any personal insults to any prog fan.
    I have pointed out that many prog fans are exercised by any criticism of the genre and treat such criticisms as a personal attack. Your post amply demonstrated the truth of my assertion.

    I have heaped my scorn on elements of the genre, and in time honoured fashion, some prog fans have taken that as a personal attack. I am not attacking the prog fans, I am attackin aspects of the genre. And if that means by association, I attack the musicians, so be it. They deserve it for inflicting that drivel upon the world.

    I have never met Keith Emerson or Pete Bardens. They are probably fine guys. But as makers of music they are appalling.

    That does not mean that ELP or Camel fans are appalling. It means I don't share their taste in music, and I absolutely reserve the right to join in a thread on the subject and state why I don't share their liking for it.

    These threads are not for your personal edification, you will get contributions that you disagree with

    If you, as you obviously do, have a problem with that, tough shit, my friend.

    Chris
     
  11. Tony L

    Tony L Administrator

    Seeing as we are 230 posts or so in to an argument maybe it's time for someone to define the term 'prog rock'. I'm not saying I'm the one to do it, but I'm pretty convinced the current view is flawed.

    To my mind the definition has shifted widely since I first heard in used back in the '70s. Back then it was still stated in full, i.e. 'progressive rock' and pretty much meant anything that wasn't simple pop or short-form rock 'n' roll. It encompassed the stuff that stretched out a bit, pushed boundaries, was hard to categorise otherwise e.g. King Crimson, Grateful Dead, Yes, Tangerine Dream, Pink Floyd, Frank Zappa, Jefferson Airplane, Man, Nektar, Cavavan, Soft Machine, Hawkwind, pretty much anything on Vertigo or Harvest etc etc. It wasn't an insult in any way. The post-punk view is it's the gold-cape-wearing excesses of just a couple of Yes and ELP albums / tours and that's it. The more I think about it the more ridiculous and revisionist this view seems. As a wider definition it made perfect sense.

    I could happily make a case for a whole raft of 'cool' albums being 'prog', e.g. The Beatles Abbey Road, The Doors Strange Days (pretty much any of their albums to be honest), Amon Düül II Dance Of The Lemmings, Wolf City, Frank Zappa (pretty much anything), Magazine Secondhand Daylight, Talk Talk (Colour Of Spring onwards), Radiohead (Kid A onwards), Godspeed You Black Emperor, Sigur Ros etc (pretty much everything) etc etc. I suspect I could even stretch a half decent case together for Wire's Chair's Missing & PIL's Metal Box!
     
  12. sadcafe

    sadcafe pfm Member

    Mescilato. You do yourself a disservice my friend. Read your own posting above mate. I am sure we can agree to disagree me old mucker. Anyway, chewed the cud on this one for long enough bro.
    Have a nice day ;-)
     
  13. sadcafe

    sadcafe pfm Member

    Much to agree with this post.
     
  14. Mescalito

    Mescalito pfm Member

    All the bands above could also be classified as underground rock.

    Perhaps a good working definition could be: "Prpgressive Rock - Underground Music You Don't Like":)

    Chris
     
  15. Joe P

    Joe P certified Buffologist / mod

    I thought the defining characteristics of prog rock were a lead singer who dons a cape or kimono, a drummer with a huge drum kit that includes flaming gong, a lead guitarist with a double -- or better -- triple-neck guitar, and lyrics about black holes, Hobbits or whatever lurks in the centre of the Earth.

    Joe
     
  16. stephen bennett

    stephen bennett Mr Enigma

    No, Joe. No more than bad acting, moveable props and red jerseys define Trek. :D

    Regards

    Stephen
     
  17. stephen bennett

    stephen bennett Mr Enigma

    Corrected for you. :D

    I can't define it either - but I like about as much of it as other genres - it's just unfairly pilloried IMHO.

    Stephen
     
  18. Joe P

    Joe P certified Buffologist / mod

    Stephen,

    I'm cool with prog, and I listened to much prog as a yout', but I think even a hardcore prog rocker would have to agree that my characterization is close to the truth.

    Joe
    < not serious>
    P.S. Knock the mighty Trek again and I'll make you go away using the power of my mind!

    [​IMG]
    < /not serious>
     
  19. kasperhauser

    kasperhauser pfm Member

    Nice tie-in to prog, Joe P.
     
  20. stephen bennett

    stephen bennett Mr Enigma

    I love Trek. :D

    What band had a singer with a cape? Are we just basically talking about Yes.

    Apparently, according to the philistines, this is bad (Topographic oceans tour.) -

    [​IMG]

    And this good (Pet Shop Boys)-

    [​IMG]

    :confused:

    Stephen
     

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