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Trump Part 17

Discussion in 'off topic' started by chainrule, May 3, 2019.

  1. chainrule

    chainrule gordon

    I stopped watching the video after 4 min. I kept thinking, "get to the point, please." An example of why I prefer reading over watching: it's easier to skip to the gist. My guess is that the point, or one of them, was a Democrat was blocking campaign finance reform.

    That a majority leader, or worse, a committee lead, can prevent a vote, is a serious flaw in a system ripe with serious flaws. I know this isn't the "more important issue" to which you are referring. At many of the Democrats running for President are pushing for some kind of campaign finance reform. Gillibrand (not someone I'm considering voting for) has an interesting proposal.

    https://www.politico.com/story/2019/05/01/kirsten-gillibrand-campaign-finance-plan-1296367
     
  2. chainrule

    chainrule gordon

    Joe Manchin comes to mind.
     
    maxflinn likes this.
  3. SteveS1

    SteveS1 I heard that, pardon?

    I wonder if being to the right of Hillary is as bad as being to the left of Trump, I think we should be told.
     
  4. matthewr

    matthewr spɹɐʍʞɔɐq spɹoɔǝɹ ɹnoʎ sʎɐld

    Don't worry, Bernie will soon let us know who the right wing Democrats are.
     
  5. maxflinn

    maxflinn Bernie Sanders 2020.

    Do you like Bernie, Matthew?
     
  6. droodzilla

    droodzilla pfm Member

    Who, me?

    [​IMG]
     
    maxflinn likes this.
  7. maxflinn

    maxflinn Bernie Sanders 2020.

    Bootiful!
     
    droodzilla likes this.
  8. matthewr

    matthewr spɹɐʍʞɔɐq spɹoɔǝɹ ɹnoʎ sʎɐld

  9. vuk

    vuk \o/ choose anarchy

    she's clearly in a class by herself when it comes to knowledge and competence: i don't think there is anyone more intelligent than her at this level of politics or ever as president. she's my top choice. sanders and gabbard as distant, acceptable alternatives (granted, some of the lesser-known people may convince me as things move along).
     
    Colin L likes this.
  10. Hook

    Hook Blackbeard's former bo'sun.

    Surprising to see someone from the far left support Warren, a self-described capitalist.

    From a policy perspective, I have more respect for Warren than most other candidates. Unfortunately for her, the election is as much about style as it is substance. And while she clearly has the knowledge and experience, she has not proven to be a great communicator. In other words, intellectuals like her message, but working-class people are not as easily able to identify with her. Also, Trump's attacks (Pocahontas, Harvard elitest, etc.) have been frustratingly effective.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...rren-achieved-liftoff/?utm_term=.57e65879063c
     
  11. vuk

    vuk \o/ choose anarchy

    all the candidates are capitalists.
     
  12. Hook

    Hook Blackbeard's former bo'sun.

    Perhaps, but only Sanders is a self-described Democratic Socialist.
     
  13. matthewr

    matthewr spɹɐʍʞɔɐq spɹoɔǝɹ ɹnoʎ sʎɐld

    She's definitely the one with the policy chops and although I don't think she will win the nomination I suspect the eventual nominee will steal a lot of her good work and give her a senior cabinet position if the Dems win.

    Ignoring the minor players stuck on 1% of vote, the one I really don't want to win is Joe Biden. He seems massively out of touch with everything and an old white guy and establishment democrat would be a backward step. He is the one with union support which would help in "blue wall" mid-west states that Trump won but really if any Dem cannot re-take those seats then they have no business running.
     
  14. matthewr

    matthewr spɹɐʍʞɔɐq spɹoɔǝɹ ɹnoʎ sʎɐld

    "Democratic Socialist" are not socialist in the sense of seizing the means of production and the government running industry though. They are more social democrats in the style of the sort of mainstream centre-left politician we are very familiar with in Europe and believes in things like state support of higher education, publicly funded (but not run) healthcare, etc.

    Unless I have missed something about Sanders.
     
  15. vuk

    vuk \o/ choose anarchy

    i've watched about half of it and he is on the ball. the peterson "communist manifesto" incident is truly a disgrace (in the position of dean, i would toss him out of the university here) -- his ridiculous social and economic public lecturing has annoyed me from the start and it's in stark contrast to his critique of sexual identity, which, although largely sound, seems to be the far bigger problem for the people who hate him (lager and nuts all over again).
     
  16. maxflinn

    maxflinn Bernie Sanders 2020.

    The author of that piece says Warren has been pushing out a boatload of progressive policy proposals, focussing on fighting corporate power in order to build a base on the left and expand from there.

    He then says that approach puts her in a crowded space, competing on the left with Sanders, Kamala Harris and Kirsten Gillibrand.

    Now I'd like to hear what Vuk has to say about this, but as far as this lefty is concerned insinuating that Harris and especially Gillibrand are focussed on fighting corporate power is nonsense. I struggle to find much left-leaning about either of them too.

    Centre-right at the very best IMO.

    And not even a mention of Tulsi Gabbard!

    The Washington Post really is a shameless establishment rag.
     
  17. vuk

    vuk \o/ choose anarchy

    max.

    the washington post is trying to create public opinions, not observe or understand them.
     
    maxflinn likes this.
  18. maxflinn

    maxflinn Bernie Sanders 2020.

    Agreed, Vuk.

    A shameless establishment rag.
     
  19. vuk

    vuk \o/ choose anarchy

    max.

    a large problem vis-a-vis warren is that she has ideas/plans about regulating companies like amazon and jeff bezos owns the washington post. it's interesting he should want to own a business that loses money, until you realize that, for him, that's just on the surface.
     
    maxflinn likes this.
  20. Hook

    Hook Blackbeard's former bo'sun.

    I think you are correct.

    The reason I twice used the phase "self-described" is that politicians are very conscious of their own branding. IMO, Sanders has adopted the label to help position himself to the left of all other Democratic candidates.

    Sanders and Warren may hold many of the same policy positions, but their messaging is very different. I think this article does a reasonable job of contrasting the two.

    https://www.theguardian.com/comment...beth-warren-democratic-party-2020-differences
     

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