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Trump Part 17

Discussion in 'off topic' started by chainrule, May 3, 2019.

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  1. vuk

    vuk \o/ choose anarchy


    i think you've misunderstood my intent. i am not asking you to defend biden. i am asking you to speculate in terms of outcome by considering the impact of progressive revolt or apathy if biden is chosen. this is, in part, what happened with clinton.
  2. Hook

    Hook Blackbeard's former bo'sun.

    I agree, and it is one of the reasons I do not currently support him. The others are that his record is easily attacked, and he is not a skilled debater. Also, at least so far, his age appears to be a significant factor. While I don’t begrudge any 76-year old the occasional stammer or forgetfulness, I do think we have to hold all presidential nominees to a very high standard regardless of age.
    sean99 and vuk like this.
  3. Still

    Still he said his naim was ralph

    And men in particular.
  4. Tony L

    Tony L Administrator

    I’ve not been paying a huge amount of attention to the US elections, but Biden looks worst of field to my eyes. Too old, dithering, and if the other candidates on his own side can rip into his past to the extent they seem to be doing he’s surely not going to get far against any dirty Republican smear campaign. I’m with those above in that I’d vote for a Democrat turd emoji over any Republican, let alone a full-tilt racist bigot/nutter like Trump. As such I don’t care which, I just want one of them to win the bigger battle! Who is currently polling the strongest?
  5. Yank

    Yank Bulbous Also Tapered

    We've been there before, it was fine.

    Back then people saying it would be impossible to elect him because his name was similar to everyone's favorite terrorist bugaboo.
  6. Cav

    Cav pfm Member

    But in the UK you would vote Tory to frustrate a Socialist government?
  7. sean99

    sean99 pfm Member

    I don’t remember Tony threatening to vote conservative. I think it is about voting for a remain party rather than the Lexit party.
  8. Tony L

    Tony L Administrator

    An entirely different situation as I’ve explained many times (Brexit will ruin the UK for a generation, the political right that created it need to own their disaster, not pass the buck to an already shambolic and inept Labour party).

    PS I’ll be voting Lib Dem, not Tory, but trolls have to troll.
  9. matthewr

    matthewr spɹɐʍʞɔɐq spɹoɔǝɹ ɹnoʎ sʎɐld

    Some general points:

    1) Biden I think is a terrible candidate. Basically it boils down to "I'm the Democrat that you can vote for if you are a little shakey on the racism thing". His plan was never to say anything other than "Remember me from previous greats like That Obama Show".

    2) Polls this far out are meaningless. Not just because of the distance but because there are two major events that will change people's views on candidates: the candidate selection process and being in a presidential campaign when ads start having a go at you. Many of the current candidates have not been tested by this.

    I'd also suggest there is the unknown Russian factor and given the fact that McConnell is blocking paper ballets and security hardening we might actually see changed votes this time. I mean why not?

    3) We know two things from 2018. First that turnout matters and that this works like a cascade: energise your base > people volunteer for get out the vote type work > drives the wider base but also independents and hard to reach demographics (women and young people).

    4) Policies are important but they mostly don't decide Presidential elections.

    If we take healthcare and single payer it polls well, most people are in favour of reform and so on, but it has not been tested in a campaign yet. The obvious attack ("They will take away your work insurance") will be effective and effective in a lot of the middle america and suburbia strongholds where elections are won and lost. This is not to say that it's not important or shouldn't be addressed but rather that it's not quite the slam dunk vote winner some people suggest.

    5) I would run against Trump. I don't think we should be squeamish about pointing out he is a racist and un-american. This is effective with everyone and, if we look at things like where David Duke has stood, gets the vote out. We should also point out at great length, as Hook (I think) noted previously, that that he is an unfit, incompetent racist. I will agree to disagree about most things in politics (especially since I got sick) but I will never agree that racists and fascists can be anything other than the biggest immediate danger.
  10. vuk

    vuk \o/ choose anarchy

    especially as the russians are famous for ballets ;-)
    ErikL and matthewr like this.
  11. DonQuixote99

    DonQuixote99 pfm Member

    I get that you don't approve, clearly, but I'm not sure just what this means beyond that. Is this is a data-driven statement?
  12. maxflinn

    maxflinn pfm Member

    The President of the Zionist Organization of America (ZOA) says, days after a white supremacist carried out a massacre of mainly Hispanic people in a Walmart, that Ilhan & Rashida are “worse” than white supremacists & a “curse”.

    Where is the outrage? Where is the condemnation?

    Medhi Hasan on Twitter.

    Omar and Tlaib—you’re both frightening insensitive terrorist supporting,Jew hating, America hating Israelophobes. You’re a curse on America. You’re worse than White supremacists.@IlhanMN @RashidaTlaib

    Morton Klein on Twitter
  13. maxflinn

    maxflinn pfm Member

    This is exactly what Clinton done before losing to Trump, Matthew, so why do you state it is effective with everyone, when it evidently isn't?
  14. Joe P

    Joe P certified Buffologist / mod


    Maybe because Trump’s explicit racism since he’s been president has emboldened racists who have then gone on to murder people?

    Who knows? That might be effective.

    Still likes this.
  15. maxflinn

    maxflinn pfm Member

    Joe, do you really think people are surprised that Trump has been so explicitly racist since winning when he was just as racist when campaigning?

    I don't think so. I think many simply don't care and will vote for him if they think he's the better choice for them, as many did in 2016.

    What the Democrat candidate needs to be mainly doing, as well as highlighting Trump's filthy ways, is offering the policies the majority want.

    That's how they'll win. Not by making anti-Trumpness the centre of their campaign. Good policies that will make people's lives better need to take centre stage.
  16. Joe P

    Joe P certified Buffologist / mod


    Yup, I really do think so. And I think people might also notice that he’s not drained the swamp.

  17. Joe P

    Joe P certified Buffologist / mod

    P.S. I wouldn’t make those my sole points, but they need to be made and made often.
  18. Still

    Still he said his naim was ralph

    Yet you were shilling long and hard for Trump during his presidential campaign.
    The idea of a POTUS who has taken white supremacy, sexual assault et al mainstream being the best candidate continues to puzzle.
    Not an obvious action for a someone who claims to be an advocate of The Palestinians either.
    Sue Pertwee-Tyr likes this.
  19. maxflinn

    maxflinn pfm Member

    Anyone that either doesn't see or doesn't care that Trump is a filthy racist isn't going to do so because the Democratic candidate says so, Joe.

    Popular policies are key, while mentioning how shit Trump is here and there.
  20. Joe P

    Joe P certified Buffologist / mod


    I’d also campaign on other important issues. But the fascist needs to be called out.

    It’s not an or situation. It’s an *and* one.

    Still likes this.
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