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Trump Part 18

Discussion in 'off topic' started by kendo, Oct 10, 2019.

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  1. vuk

    vuk \o/ choose anarchy

  2. Roger Adams

    Roger Adams pfm Member

    I don't think the majority of the American electorate is anything like the British electorate. Evangelicals are not something any party this side of the pond has to worry about and Commies were a party that represented an ideology of the past - just as Naziism did.

    I think we underestimate the ignorance of much of the American electorate at our peril.

    The very mention of the "S" word has large numbers of Americans seeing the Berlin wall and preparing their bunkers.
     
  3. vuk

    vuk \o/ choose anarchy

    tones.

    i did not mean to suggest that i was without bias, just that i was much better than you at discounting mine ;-)

    whether one likes bernie or his policies, to say he's not an "outstanding contender" would only make sense if he wasn't breaking grass-roots funding records, getting the corporate establishment all worked up, having enthusiastic rallies all over place and blowing out the field in nevada.

    ultimately though, he is beating trump in the polls and that's really the most sensible thing anyone should be going by.
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2020
  4. tones

    tones Tones deaf

    Bias? I don't think bias comes into it from either side. We are looking at the same set of facts and drawing different conclusions, which is not bias, merely different interpretations. I personally hope that you are right and that, if Bernie does indeed become the Democratic nominee, he beats the pants off Trump, and that the latter retreats sullenly into that most dreaded category, a loser (but no doubt absolutely convinced of the massive voter fraud that denied him deserved victory), and goes back to his normal business of stiffing contractors, instead of making a mess of the USA. But knowing quite a few Americans who are both intelligent and Trump supporters (I can't quite believe that apparent contradiction), and who are fully paid-up members of the US's official religion, the US itself, I still think that the odds are very much against Bernie, especially when they hang the socialist label around his neck.
     
    Roger Adams likes this.
  5. Roger Adams

    Roger Adams pfm Member

    Tones, if you were to take a guess, what is behind the apparent contradictions in American society?
     
  6. Yank

    Yank Bulbous Also Tapered

    We can be sure that label will be around the neck of anyone who wins the Democratic nomination. Might as well have a real one.
     
    sean99 likes this.
  7. Yank

    Yank Bulbous Also Tapered

    Education and indoctrination.
     
  8. Yank

    Yank Bulbous Also Tapered

  9. Joe P

    Joe P certified Buffologist / mod

    If Trump is going to win, then it doesn't matter who runs against him. And it if does matter, then let the person who won the Democratic nomination pummel Trump's flabby orange arse.

    Joe
     
  10. matthewr

    matthewr spɹɐʍʞɔɐq spɹoɔǝɹ ɹnoʎ sʎɐld

    I suspect Vuk is talking about cognitive biases rather than suggesting any political bias or bad faith.
     
  11. sean99

    sean99 pfm Member

    Decades of propaganda, very poor public education for many (not all), and relative lack of Americans traveling abroad, especially to live, though even for holidays.
    If you find a college educated American who has lived in another first world country for any length of time I think they would be very likely to recognize what a terrible deal the average American gets under the current political system (education, healthcare, public facilities/services).
    Americans who have never lived abroad, and don't read the NYT, WaPo, LATimes, are likely to think
    - Government = bad
    - America invented every aspect of the modem world
    - Living in America may be hard, but everywhere else must be much worse.
    - Universal healthcare = government death panels and endless waiting lists.
     
  12. vuk

    vuk \o/ choose anarchy

    i am still unsettled by some of what's come out in context of the india visit, in particular that trump prefers his steaks "well done" and with ketchup.
    here is something from way back in 2017:

    Actually, How Donald Trump Eats His Steak Matters

    "A person who refuses to try something better is a person who will never make things good."

    https://www.eater.com/2017/2/28/14753248/trump-steak-well-done-ketchup-personality

    bloomberg is jumping all over this:

    [​IMG]

    could be a game-changer.


     
  13. tones

    tones Tones deaf

    I honestly don't know. It baffles me. I move in patent and trade mark attorney circles, and these people aren't stupid, yet an alarming proportion seem to be Trump supporters. Part of it seems to be tribal - if you're Republican, you support the current chief of the tribe and toe the tribal line. One of our administrators is from Cincinnati, and anything Republican is OK. She has no explanation as to why she supports a party that is so totally contrary to her interests as an ordinary working person, but she does.

    The other thing is, as Sean above has said, the belief apparently imbibed with their mother's milk, that America is the biggest and best at absolutely everything, and no evidence or observation to the contrary will shake this. The patent attorney from our US department visits HQ in Switzerland frequently and has seen much of how the Swiss often do things so much better than the US, apart from much nicer chocolate. Now there's an enormous difference between a country of 7 million and one of 300 million, so parallels can't be stretched too far (clearly impossible to have a Swiss-style public transport system), but things like the healthcare system are transferable. Switzerland has essentially Obamacare (we are all obliged to take out at least basic healthcare insurance), and it works very well. It limits the possible medical costs to a maximum of just over CHF3000 p.a. Yet Americans I know who live here and use the system are dead against it being implemented in the USA and want it removed. I don't get it.
     
    NeilR and Roger Adams like this.
  14. wacko

    wacko pfm Member

    White, Christian, Rural America votes Republican.
     
    Roger Adams likes this.
  15. vuk

    vuk \o/ choose anarchy

    for those wanting an in-depth "anaylsis" of the odd voting trends in america:

    part 1:




    part 2:




    part 3:




    you can search the rest on youtube (substitute * with correct sequential number)....
    RAI with Thomas Frank (*/9)
     
  16. Roger Adams

    Roger Adams pfm Member

    Hoo Wee!

    Corona Virus is sure going to make those healthcare companies big numbers Stateside isn't it - particularly if they can get a vaccination into circulation. Big numbers.

    Civilisation?
     
  17. Roger Adams

    Roger Adams pfm Member

    It's always amazed me that those are the very people who would benefit from social ideals and some of them are both articulate and intelligent. They simply have blind spots. It takes brainwashing to a level the former USSR could only have dreamt of.
     
  18. Roger Adams

    Roger Adams pfm Member

    How many people has Donald called a "great man" in his 3 and a half years to date and which is the most reviled globally?
     
  19. Yank

    Yank Bulbous Also Tapered

    This is the result of the 1964 Civil Rights Act. Prior to that White, Christian, Rural and Southern America voted Democrat.
     
  20. Mullardman

    Mullardman Moderately extreme...

    I don't recall the detail and I bow to your llocal knowledge, but when I was studying Politics and, under duress, 'Modern Foreign Govts', I was told about the particular animal which is/was the 'Southern Democrat'.

    I was left with the impression that 'any similarity between Southern Democrats and Real Democrats is purely coincidental'..
     
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