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UK Election 2015 (part II)

Discussion in 'off topic' started by cooky1257, Apr 22, 2015.

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  1. kabayiri

    kabayiri pfm Member

    Everyone can agree that something is broken, but they may not agree on a replacement if it disadvantages them in some way.

    The current system worked pretty well in maintaining a 2 party system. Bring in more parties and the cracks begin to show.
     
  2. matthewr

    matthewr spɹɐʍʞɔɐq spɹoɔǝɹ ɹnoʎ sʎɐld

    Yes! It's the same with that new fangled Televisualbox as well.
     
  3. SteveG

    SteveG pfm Member

    Slightly fewer votes despite standing in less than 10% of the seats.
     
  4. KC Cantiaci

    KC Cantiaci pfm Member

    I think FPTP was a good solution back in the day when there were less people, much slower communications and less technology. Constitutional representation for areas was a valuable part as the make up of the country was very different. But in today's world of globalisation, fast comms and technology with people being more specific as to their views, it's showing itself as outdated. How can the SNP get 1.45m votes (4.7%) that transforms into 56 seats (8.6% of parliament) whereas UKIP get 3.87m (12.6%) votes, which is over 2.66 times more, yet just get 1 solitary seat (0.15% of parliament)? This is undemocratic surely.

    I also believe a PR based system would mean less/no disenfranchisement and less tactical voting. Another positive aspect is that the parties could put their best representatives into parliament as opposed to the ones that happen to be in safe seats. If you look at what's happened today, some of the big hitters have fallen by the wayside so it seems like we're losing some of the top men and women from the HoC.
     
  5. tqineil

    tqineil pfm Member

    Tricky first test for Cameron comes tomorrow when his favourite team, Aston Villa, play his favourite team, West Ham
     
  6. KC Cantiaci

    KC Cantiaci pfm Member

    You say it won't fly but I thought the SNP want it? If they had independence, this is what they would have faced without support of the rUK. Like I said, the SNP have the best of both worlds at the moment. The only way to put an end the seemingly never ending question of Scotland going independent would be for the SNP to try and run their own economy and see how they do. It's a safer option for the people of Scotland than full independence.
     
  7. Helmut

    Helmut pfm Member

    Russel Brand to the rescue!
     
  8. davidge

    davidge pfm Member

    What we were offered was AV (which reallocates votes within a seat until someone reaches 50%) and not PR (in which the MPs are 'voted in' in accordance with the % vote their party achieved) as the Conservatives did not want to lose out and for some reason the LibDems went along with this (a decision they may now be regretting).

    To quote the Electoral Reform Society:
    "AV is not proportional representation and in certain electoral conditions, such as landslides, can produce a more disproportional result than First Past the Post (FPTP)"

    It is no wonder it was rejected as it was really only slightly better than FPTP whilst being more complicated to understand when voting.
     
  9. Jo Sharp

    Jo Sharp Pulls on doors marked push

    Strange, as the tories will spend 8bn more on the NHS than labour had planned. The NHS has never been under threat of cuts; that is just labour spin. Tory govts have always increased health spending in real terms.
     
  10. Tony L

    Tony L Administrator

    The Conservatives will never vote against a system that enables them a total dictatorship with a little over a third of the vote. In this election they got 36% of the vote share vs. Labour's 30%, i.e just six percent is the deciding amount, and around two thirds of people voted against each party (i.e. neither deserves outright control). This is not a democracy in any credible sense of the word and we now get to suffer a five year Bullingdon Club tyranny because, for some reason that entirely escapes me, one third of a two third turnout (i.e. about 18-20% of people) actually wanted it. A truly preposterous and inequitable system!
     
  11. doctorf

    doctorf left footed right winger

    The NHS is fvcked and I suspect it will make very little difference which party runs the show.
    The Red boys chuck money at it and the Blue boys think they can control it by micro-management and spin. In the absence of unlimited clinicians in the UK it can only get worse.
     
  12. matthewr

    matthewr spɹɐʍʞɔɐq spɹoɔǝɹ ɹnoʎ sʎɐld

    Because the Tories were able to use a Magic Money Tree to produce the £8bn and if Labour had tried that we would never have heard the end of it.

    But the issue of the NHS is not really the funding, it's the "reforms". You know like they promised not to do last time but did anyway only for it to be so ****ed up they had to sack the guy responsible and do something else. And allowing access to the NHS to private sector, predominantly US, healthcare companies
     
  13. wacko

    wacko pfm Member

    Perhaps but PR (depending on how it is implemented) could have delivered a result where the Conservatives would now need UKIP to form a Government.
     
  14. Tony L

    Tony L Administrator

    At lest we get to see the twunts' magic money tree now. Oh, wait...
     
  15. SteveG

    SteveG pfm Member

    I'm not a Tory voter, but I'd rather have a Tory majority under FPTP than a Tory/UKIP coalition under PR.
     
  16. Tony L

    Tony L Administrator

    The Tory and UKIP vote share would still be below 50%, just. It would have resulted in a safer situation for the country as a whole than we are in now. It would also have been fair and legitimate. The current situation is anything but.
     
  17. stephen bennett

    stephen bennett Mr Enigma

    Expect 'free' schools to be sold off one by one - we'll end up like Sweden - who appear to have realised they were a really bad idea.

    So it seems that those punishing the Lib Dems and Labour in Scotland have let the Tories in. I live in a small island of red in a sea of blue - can someone airlift me some Marx?

    This is really the worst outcome IMHO - I thought another right wing coalition or contested left coalition was going to be bad, but unfettered Toryism - well, not sure I can use any other smiley than..:confused:

    Question though - will the Tories be able to get a EU referendum through? Will pro - EU Tories vote against? It's a slim majority and likely to be slimmer in two years.

    Stephen
     
  18. Mark EJ

    Mark EJ pfm Member

    I agree heartily with much of that, but disagree that PR is the answer. Indeed, this discussion tends to revolve around a FTPT vs. PR axis, and it doesn't have to -- there are alternatives to 'pure' FPTP which fix many of its problems without resorting to PR, which is simply a horse-traders' charter and often ends up serving nobody well except the politicians themselves, and could well be part of what that Welsh woman would call "prrrawgrrrairsssiff"... (decode: "hard left").

    I am about to start a separate thread on the 'Henderson Method' for consideration. No doubt I will be called a stinking wacist, etc.
     
  19. SteveG

    SteveG pfm Member

    Add 50 seats to what Labour got and they're still 50 short of the Tories, so it's little to do with what happened in Scotland. Instead it appears to have been a more general rejection of Labour as a party. Perhaps if there was a credible socialist alternative to Labour in England we might have seen the Labour party rejected even further than it was. Although interestingly I was listing to a few labour commentators today who appeared to be putting the problem down to Labour having moved too far to the left under Milliband.

    The LibDems got what the deserved for selling out those who voted for them in 2010 so only have themselves to blame.
     
  20. Blzebub

    Blzebub Banned

    They both chuck money at it, in equal amounts. The problem is there aren't enough doctors, and a sizeable percentage of home-grown ones have gone to Oz to get away from the disastrous "Modernising Medical Careers".
     
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