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Which solder for Naca5?

Discussion in 'd.i.y.' started by hski, Aug 11, 2019.

  1. hski

    hski Member

    I have an Amtex 25w which works at 420c, just have to wait a while to get up to this temp. Would a lower melting point solder like the Carda 4 core teutetic be fine for the job.
    I heard a little secret on a website that 350c is the absolute best temp for soldering naca5 to the amp ban pins, not one degree less or more and hi-fiers send their cables from all over Europe to this one guy in Sweden because of the superb SQ his soldering achieves. I'd like to do this but don't want the wait for postage and return, could be a while.
     
  2. YNWOAN

    YNWOAN 100% Analogue

    It’s not April 1st is it? Why on earth would 350c be an ‘ideal’ temperature? Does the same site recommend tin foil hats and a specific torque requirement for every screw in an LP12?
     
    Isobarik and Arkless Electronics like this.
  3. martin clark

    martin clark pinko bodger

    ^ +1 to that, someone is tweaking your tail. So much nonsense.

    It doesn't matter how hot the soldering iron can get in free air not doing anything - what matters is the power rating - the rate at which it can deliver heat into the heavy cable you want to solder, to get it completely hot enough, and quickly enough that the solder 'takes' completely while the flux remains active i.e. before anything oxidises away, and/or the cable insulation melts back wastefully. The soldering temperature actually in the joint will be whatever it takes to get a clean & complete solder union.

    More power is always better in this regard. That is is a very different thing from what a soldering station might be set at initially, not under load.

    The earlier post by MJS covers it all - read it again:

     
    MJS, booja30 and Arkless Electronics like this.
  4. Yank

    Yank Bulbous Also Tapered

    That law does not apply to someone doing a few joints at home for their hifi hobby.
     
    YNWOAN and Dan K like this.
  5. Vinny

    Vinny pfm Member

    The comment was made that Naim use lead solder. They do not, that would be illegal.

    See also, for instance -
    https://news.bloombergenvironment.c...-be-selling-lead-solder-in-breach-of-eu-ban-1

    Exactly what loop-hole lead solder is available via, outside of aero-space use, I do not know or care. As for use, rather than purchase, it APPEARS that the law only affects sales, which is hardly a surprise.

    If you want more information about commercial use, including dates, check out car forums and the like wrt ECU dry joint problems on pretty much all models of all cars, colloquially linked to the ban on lead solders.
     
  6. Arkless Electronics

    Arkless Electronics Trade: Amp design and repairs.

    Well not in Canada anyway...
     
    Isobarik, YNWOAN and Barrymagrec like this.
  7. booja30

    booja30 pfm Member

    Or Washington or Colorado.
     
  8. Chops54

    Chops54 pfm Member


    Steve, TDL Studio 4. I have a pair in the other system upstairs.
     
  9. linnfomaniac83

    linnfomaniac83 I bet you can’t wheelie a unicycle!

    Where are you buddy? I’m just between Lichfield and Walsall in the West Mids, I have some high quality 60/40 and a high powered temp controlled station, it’d take me no time to solder your cables up if you’re near enough.
     
  10. linnfomaniac83

    linnfomaniac83 I bet you can’t wheelie a unicycle!

    It was an absolute nightmare when we were forced into using lead free solder, I was a test and repair technician in a factory that produced fire protection systems and my job became much, much harder. Most of what came of the production line needed some rework, to the point that we employed a team of reworkers to check and fix comments issues before they went to test because they’d almost certainly fail otherwise... and sometimes take out expensive and fiddly to replace quad flat pack chips.
     
  11. hski

    hski Member

    It sounds like an old wifes tale but the swede who recommended this guy who solders at 350c has tried on numerous occasions to solder his own cable and he can never get it to sound as good as when it's soldered by his friend who states the ideal for naca5 is exactly 350c. The solder and tip size plus the technique and power of the iron are important but the one constant for getting the best sound quality is the 350c heat. His shop is in Stockholm and europeans send cable from all over to get their cables specifcally done by him. I believe him as he's been a hi-fi ocd guy since 83 and he does seem to know his stuff. It explains why the guy always gets a better SQ when his cables are returned after being soldered by him. Maybe it's the ideal bonding of solder and nickel plug temp. You never know with heat, welding and steel. If it's too hot it's slightly off and too cool it won't work right. So there's always optimum operating temps of lead, steel, copper mating with other steels or metals. Think about it a little.
     
  12. stevec67

    stevec67 pfm Member

    Nice, I didn't know that they did a big 3 way TL like that.
     
  13. Arkless Electronics

    Arkless Electronics Trade: Amp design and repairs.

    /\ this is complete nonsense!! Caveat emptor....
     
    Barrymagrec, glenn jarrett and YNWOAN like this.
  14. YNWOAN

    YNWOAN 100% Analogue

    With respect, I don’t need to ‘think about it a little’ as I know about soldering, silver soldering, brazing, welding etc. and, over many years, have taught many the theory and practical skills required.

    Here’s a picture from the Swedish Naim dealer Reptil Audio:

    [​IMG]

    It’s a great picture of how NOT to solder NacA5.

    I presume the dealer you are referring to is either Mether Media or Reference Audio. However, there is no need to send cable internationally to get it soldered, this is NOT a particularly difficult or exotic task, it does NOT need enormous skill or special equipment.

    Some audio enthusiasts love to believe in magic and myth, but this doesn’t make it true. If it would make you feel better to send your cable to Sweden to get it soldered then do it, but honestly, you will be wasting your time and money.
     
  15. glenn jarrett

    glenn jarrett pfm Member

    60/40 I used to work for promethean and used to solder 15 pin VGA plugs all the time started with 60/40 but then they made us use lead free solder .
    after trying it several times i got chucked in the bin and i went back to 60/40 as did the other engineers .
     
  16. Barrymagrec

    Barrymagrec pfm Member

    There`s more than one type of lead free solder, In my particular experience of soldering D plugs they range from just about usable to completely hopeless, I still use 60/40 unless specifically required to use lead free by the customer.
     
    Arkless Electronics likes this.
  17. Chops54

    Chops54 pfm Member

    They use Elac drivers. The same bass and midrange units are used in the IMF RSPM IV Improved and onwards. I have to say I prefer IMFs with the Kef units and use TLS80s in our main system.
     
  18. hski

    hski Member

    I actually saw on forum someone close to Naim said they Use multicore crystal 60/40 tin/lead alloy solder which i'm sure has 40 percent lead. They stated they still use this because it's by far the best stuff and the new stuff is inferior. Of course officially they will probably deny this but maybe it could have serious implifcations for their future business as i'm sure they'd not want thousands of Naim kit suddenly breaking down because of poor quality solder.
     
  19. hski

    hski Member

    That would be their official stance to not break the law but which company would want thousands of Naim equipment returning in 7 years or so because of poor solder.
     
  20. hski

    hski Member

    Oh thanks very much for your offer but i've only just sent my cables and plugs to a really well-known trader and solderer of naca5 and the Naim amp plugs. It didn't cost me a lot anyway. I was really concerned about this soldering as i was gonna try it myself but my iron was an Amtek 25w which states an operating temp of over 400c would be enough for the job, but others think not. I'm very inexperienced at this anyway. This amp end soldering for the Naim amp is critical to get right as it can have a huge affect on sound quality the better it is done. Thanks anyway!
     
    linnfomaniac83 likes this.

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