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Why so many lies.

Discussion in 'off topic' started by I.D.C., Mar 28, 2020.

  1. Finnegan

    Finnegan pfm Member

    As much as my loathing of the Tories knows no bounds, they don't have a monopoly on lying. Blair's weapons of mass destruction? Then again, Blair was always a Tory anyway.
     
  2. stevec67

    stevec67 pfm Member

    This rings a bell with me. In food manufacture we occasionally have to compromise quality, sometimes even to the point of breaking minor laws. This is coyly termed a "commercial decision" . That's fine. Will I reject £10k of product because it's say missing a minor ingredient and doesn't eat quite as well? Of course not. Likewise a 3 bean salad that has somehow picked up a fourth bean? No again, though this is technically illegal. You just wouldn't be prosecuted. What then happens is that breaking the law becomes acceptable and next week there's a similar incident when this has an impact on food safety. It is very hard to defend last week's law breaking while taking a tough stance this week.
     
    Sue Pertwee-Tyr likes this.
  3. mansr

    mansr Objectionist

    What Labour says: free education for all.
    What Labour does: war in Iraq.
     
  4. Roger Adams

    Roger Adams pfm Member

    Tories didn't tell us about this bloody virus either.
     
  5. Seeker_UK

    Seeker_UK Waiting for the streetcar..

    That Labour Party doesn't exist to win the next election.
     
  6. Roger Adams

    Roger Adams pfm Member

    Some thing those of all political persuasions can hopefully be entertained by.

    Gove's face when asked is this just proves that the NHS was being underfunded.

    [​IMG]
     
    I.D.C. likes this.
  7. Seanm

    Seanm pfm Member

    That big lie - along with the big lie about the financial crash and austerity, as well as Leveson and the expenses scandal - is definitely the background against which all of this has to be seen. You'd have to say it laid the groundwork, in terms of inculcating such widespread cynicism and demonstrating to politicians that basically they lived in a consequence-free world. But it was a big lie with a big, more or less delimited strategic purpose, and it was sort of deniable. The lying we're seeing now is habitual, about everything, and it's comically obvious, undeniable. I think making lying the basis of your entire mode of campaigning and governing is new, and it is, specifically, the strategy of this particular Conservative government.

    Not saying this is worse than the Iraq thing, by the way. If anything that was worse.
     
    Covkxw, I.D.C. and Sue Pertwee-Tyr like this.
  8. Seanm

    Seanm pfm Member

    There's no reason to believe that. Labour were in a similar position to the Conservative PArty in the GE campaign. The Tories campaigned exactly as they are governing now, with the systematic, calculated use of lies, misinformation and manipulation. Labour did not campaign that way - at all.

    The Tories' strategy - "flooding the zone with sh_t", as Steve Bannon puts it - wouldn't work for Labour. The goal is to confuse people to the point that they just withdraw from politics in disgust. Then a populist figure comes along and says they'll put an end to politics: they'll drain the swamp, they'll just get Brexit done. Labour need people to understand what's going on, and to engage in politics. That's their big problem really.

    Even if Labour were to be so stupid as to pursue a strategy that always favours the right (they made this mistake with immigration, after all) they simply wouldn't be allowed to get away with it. The media's response to the merest of inconsistencies in Labour's proposals - the tax plans that wouldn't cost anyone earning less than 80 grand anything, but turned out to cost married couples a couple of hundred pounds - shows us that governing by lying is not actually an option for Labour. The media will very vigorously hold them to account over the smallest of infractions.
     
    Seeker_UK likes this.
  9. Seeker_UK

    Seeker_UK Waiting for the streetcar..

    There is. They're politicians.

    All joking aside. No amount of opining that 'your side' are not like the Tories is simply your assessment based on behaviour in opposition. They will be forced to change tack if and when they get in power ("Event's dear boy, events.") and then again it will boil down to how it's framed and personal opinion: you think the party you support acted out of pragmatism and I think the party you support is making a cynical 'reverse ferret' against their manifesto vow.

    It's all opinion and conjecture until it actually happens and then, well, it's all down to opinion what motivates.
     
  10. russel

    russel ./_dazed_and_confused


    Governing is not an option for labour until they get some people with ability to lead the party, rather than a bunch of talentless worthies who appeal to the party apparatchiks only.
     
  11. clifftaylor

    clifftaylor Absolutely retired!

    Seanm - "the media" aren't going to change any time soon, so Labour need to develop a method of getting the message across, which will have to involve some sharp minds who are media savvy, for want of a worse description. I think that they've been woefully short of such people for a long time; I'm not trolling, I want Labour to oppose the current shower of sh*ts and get elected.
     
    Del monaco likes this.
  12. Del monaco

    Del monaco Del Monaco

    Agree with this. Just competent would be a reasonable start.
     
  13. Cheese

    Cheese Bitter lover

    Not that I am a fan of Gove (I barely know who he is) but I am definitely not a fan of taking a picture of someone and make vague accusations based on facial expression - especially when we don’t know at what sort of event/situation the pic was taken. It reminds me the “lip reading specialists” telling the tabloids what Meghan is supposed to have said during a video sequence.
     
  14. I.D.C.

    I.D.C. pfm Member

    Personally I dont care what political party is responsible. To go on TV and bullshit your way out of a mess is something I never tolerated from my work team of 36 catering crew on a ship. They knew not to be scared to admit mistakes be truthful you get the problem fixed quicker. For MP's blabbing on while medical staff know it's not the truth. All MP's need to say is we have logistical problems but we,are right on it. If lies have to be told for something so simple I really fear for our future when this is all over.
     
    Sue Pertwee-Tyr likes this.
  15. Brian

    Brian Eating fat, staying slim

    These daily press conferences have become more than a joke, imo.

    The tory today, whatever the name is of this particular example of a tory clone (he was the same one lying on Question Time last Thursday) and Gove the other day seem to have been given a script to read out regardless of question(s) asked. That the script is generally a lie just makes it worse that they ignore any question and fart out this rubbish.

    It is nothing short of incredible that even in these times, these people are doing this and getting away with it.
     
    Sue Pertwee-Tyr likes this.
  16. Roger Adams

    Roger Adams pfm Member

    I must admit Cheese's post is excellent because I'd just switched back on and though it was serious :)
     

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